D44 versus D50/60 spindle nut torque differences?
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Cargo Master
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,171
Likes: 20
From: Denton, TX
D44 versus D50/60 spindle nut torque differences?
The shop manual says to tighten them all to 50 ft/lbs then loosen 90 degrees.
But for the D44 is says to retighten to 16 ft/lbs.
The same note is not made for the D50/60.
I know they are different, but as they share the same basic tapered bearing design the difference in bearing preload seems to be a lot.
Just looking for some confirmation...
But for the D44 is says to retighten to 16 ft/lbs.
The same note is not made for the D50/60.
I know they are different, but as they share the same basic tapered bearing design the difference in bearing preload seems to be a lot.
Just looking for some confirmation...
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 19,311
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From: Waterloo, Iowa
Check carefully - it may be that one procedure or specification is for new bearing installation, while the other specification (lesser torque) is for the reinstallation of serviceable, used bearings. New bearings need a fairly high preload, at least according to the manufacturer.
Going all the way back, for example my 64 the preload in the shop manual is 50-80 ft pounds (and then back off at least one castellation, tho not more than two) for the front wheel bearing replacement; but only 15-20 ft pounds for repack and re-installation of same.
The higher figure for bearings is basically a one time deal, for all subsequent uses not much more than finger tight is required.
Going all the way back, for example my 64 the preload in the shop manual is 50-80 ft pounds (and then back off at least one castellation, tho not more than two) for the front wheel bearing replacement; but only 15-20 ft pounds for repack and re-installation of same.
The higher figure for bearings is basically a one time deal, for all subsequent uses not much more than finger tight is required.
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Cargo Master
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,171
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From: Denton, TX
Thanks Tedster9, I went back and reviewed and there seems to be no differentiation between new and repacked bearings.
I'm not familiar with the D44 firsthand but looking at the manual I'm not sure there is a second or locking nut that gets torqued to 200 ft/lbs like the eD50/60 do. Maybe that is where some of the 'retightening' happens.
My friend is working on his Bronco and I am looking up torque values and such for him. This is when I noticed the difference.
I'm not familiar with the D44 firsthand but looking at the manual I'm not sure there is a second or locking nut that gets torqued to 200 ft/lbs like the eD50/60 do. Maybe that is where some of the 'retightening' happens.
My friend is working on his Bronco and I am looking up torque values and such for him. This is when I noticed the difference.
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 19,311
Likes: 97
From: Waterloo, Iowa
The locking nut is just that and is not a factor on final torque.
The preload on standard tapered bearings is just to take up any slack, after that it's more or less a "feel" thing. Check the Timken and SKF websites for a little more color or background on bearing installation, the manuals are a little vague on the "why" sometimes.
http://www.skf.com/binary/79-66360/457377.pdf
http://www.timken.com/EN-US/solution...Procedures.pdf
Ted
The preload on standard tapered bearings is just to take up any slack, after that it's more or less a "feel" thing. Check the Timken and SKF websites for a little more color or background on bearing installation, the manuals are a little vague on the "why" sometimes.
http://www.skf.com/binary/79-66360/457377.pdf
http://www.timken.com/EN-US/solution...Procedures.pdf
Ted
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,006
Likes: 72
From: Roseville, MN
Dana 44s with manual hubs have the same type of spindle nut - locking ring - locking nut as the Dana 60. But Dana 44s with automatic hubs have a different type of spindle nut that doesn't have a second locking nut.
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Cargo Master
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 2,171
Likes: 20
From: Denton, TX
Thanks Nothing Special, I don't have first hand D44 experience but suspect the auto hub spindle nut is similar to a 2wd hub?
My concern is the 16 ft/lbs the D44 gets retightened to but not the D50/60. But as Tedster9 suggests, I'll explore some bearing manufacturer's websites.
My concern is the 16 ft/lbs the D44 gets retightened to but not the D50/60. But as Tedster9 suggests, I'll explore some bearing manufacturer's websites.
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,006
Likes: 72
From: Roseville, MN
I've only had the spindle nut for automatic hubs in my hands once (when I took the hubs on my '95 F-150 apart about 16 years ago to replace the automatics with manual hubs) so I don't recall exactly what it was like. But it was some sort of ratchet assembly. Beyond that I can't tell you anything about it.
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Cargo Master
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: Denton, TX
Ok thanks. I guess the basic question is do the D50/60 get loosened the 90 degrees and not retightened like the D44 does and the general consensus is 'yes'.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,006
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From: Roseville, MN
- torque inner nut to 50 lb-ft while rotating hub
- back inner nut off 90 degrees
- install lockwasher
- torque outer nut to 160 - 205 lb-ft
New User
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4
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From: Oregon City
When the outer nut contacts the lockwasher on the D60 I am working on, the lock washer spins and shears off the lock tang. What am I doing wrong?
I have been told there is an upgrade to the hex nuts, but I have not been successful at finding anything with the proper size thread.
Lyle
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,006
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From: Roseville, MN
I've never had any trouble. Are you putting parts on in the right order and orientation? First the inner nut goes on. This is the one with a pin sticking out of one side. It goes in with the pin sticking out towards you. Then the lock ring with the tab sliding in the slot in the spindle and making sure the pin on the inner nut goes through one of the holes in the lock ring so the lock ring sits flat against the inner nut. Then the outer nut goes on. There's no pin in the outer nut on either side.
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Cargo Master
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: Denton, TX
nothingspecial has likely identified your problem...the items are installed in the wrong sequence.
I used the Stage 8 system and am very happy with it. Google "Stage 8 DNA60". It can be a little tedious because all the grease makes some of the holes and grooves hard to see, but it eliminates the 200 ft/lb torqued second nut and uses a different design that is near fool proof.
I used the Stage 8 system and am very happy with it. Google "Stage 8 DNA60". It can be a little tedious because all the grease makes some of the holes and grooves hard to see, but it eliminates the 200 ft/lb torqued second nut and uses a different design that is near fool proof.
Elder User
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 785
Likes: 2
I went through this process on these boards a few months back. My '88 F250 has the D44HD TTB front end, and it only has one nut, not two. Just be aware of that. Also, I've learned through various people who know much, much more about mechanics than I, that the tightening, loosening, et cetera process is unnecessary. Just tighten it up good, and call it a day. I've had no problems with mine.
New User
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
From: Oregon City
I've never had any trouble. Are you putting parts on in the right order and orientation? First the inner nut goes on. This is the one with a pin sticking out of one side. It goes in with the pin sticking out towards you. Then the lock ring with the tab sliding in the slot in the spindle and making sure the pin on the inner nut goes through one of the holes in the lock ring so the lock ring sits flat against the inner nut. Then the outer nut goes on. There's no pin in the outer nut on either side.
Lyle
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,006
Likes: 72
From: Roseville, MN
I went through this process on these boards a few months back. My '88 F250 has the D44HD TTB front end, and it only has one nut, not two. Just be aware of that. Also, I've learned through various people who know much, much more about mechanics than I, that the tightening, loosening, et cetera process is unnecessary. Just tighten it up good, and call it a day. I've had no problems with mine.