I'm gonna add this to my list of things to do before winter, but, I've been thinking about it the past couple days. Why are we adding a second + cable from the alternator output to the passenger battery rather than just pulling out the existing wire and putting in a bigger 1/0 wire with a 150 fuse? Wouldn't this have the same effect and be cleaner?

BTW, for those that have time and can wait for stuff to be shipped, I found a good deal on wire on amazon.


It's $51 today, but I swear that yesterday it was $30-something. Shoulda ordered it yesterday! Throw in some connectors and make it whatever length you need and have enough to replace any bad lengths you find as well.

 

Thanks Jack for sharing your experience & knowledge and thanks Mark for the link and posting your situation or I would have never known.

I'm gonna get these supplies together so when I get my pick-up back after the head studs & EGR delete I can "get e'r done".....

 

and Sarg! thanks for the thread........

 

Yes! Thanks for all the help and information everyone! I know my batteries are starting to show signs of age even though they're only 2 years old. They're the Duracell's from Batteries Plus. After 4 or 5 days of not driving the truck they're a bit low, still starts the truck fine and the voltages are good, just a little low on cranking amps. I'm gonna get the wiring addressed now so it's all good to go for the new batteries when these die. Maybe even extend the life of of these!

 

I've got more to respond in this thread but not the time right now.

Yes you can eliminate that wire but only to a point. The wire from the battery terminal splices into the GP fusible links and wire as well as to the alternator fusible links and wire. Look at the layout I pasted in messages above. So which is more work .... Layering in a parallel wire or modifying the OE wiring and replacing your alternator output lead? Individual choice, but your suggestion does have merit as the pathway between the alternator to the battery terminal would not mix fusible links and fuses. I'll have to think about getting off my lazy tail and doing that.

 

IMO there is no need for an additional negative cable off the alternator. The pathway through the engine to the negative cable terminations are way more then capable.

My factory installed batteries (not the same as Motorcraft replacements) lasted for about six-seven years when the passenger side was the worst of the two. My Motorcraft replacements lasted for about three years when the passenger side battery was the worst of the two. I installed Walmart Max batteries, something I thought I'd never do, and they are showing a better balance history then the previous batteries, plus have held their capacity. I did add the negative cable between the frame rail and engine block when these were installed.

The only reason I did the Advance Auto testing, direct out of the truck hot and with a 30 hour layover was due to my FICM p***ing match situation. Historically I use my refractometer to check the specific gravity of individual cells which has shown me the failing of an individual cell well in advance of any other method I've used over the decades. Right now these batteries are balanced across all cells. Two to three years more will be the real example of aftermarket batteries and the results of the added cable. But so far I'm convinced or would not have brought this up in a forum.

 

Aaah, that makes sense. I missed that part where that cable is spliced off before it hits the battery. That would be more work to update that cable for sure.

 

Well, You got me "beat" by 7 yrs! I retired in my 25th year from the USAF/USAFR.........But WILL still talk to NAVY guys!!

And even though I did get an EE degree, and I am still pretty good at "research" in the field, I am not a battery engineer, and I did not choose to work in that field (although my spare time fun since about 16 has always been trying to electrocute myself!! You haven't lived until you've grabbed hold of electrolytic cap charged up to about 750V or grabbed some high voltage RF!!!)

That is still a very interesting observation if it happens every time in every installation. [and I am NOT doubting your observation even a little bit!]

I did some more research on how and why lead acid batteries fail and found that load balancing is extremely important, connecting [in parallel] only identical type batteries, and that also included NEVER replacing only one of the batteries if one fails or becomes "weak" etc.......

This is because even though 2 "identical" lead acid batteries are only "identical" when they're new. After several (identical) charge/discharge cycles, they're no longer AS identical..............and even when they're "new" they're not absolutely or perfectly "identical"

If you have more resistance "points" on one side (drivers-side) VS the other ( passenger-side) AND this would include the ground connections, You won't have load balancing (and for that matter, charge balancing)

Charge balancing is battery dependent........... Just because one battery in a parallel circuit is fully charged, doesn't mean the other is charged.

So charging parallel batteries almost ALWAYS results in overcharging (or undercharging) one of them.

The only way to optimally charge 2 or more parallel l batteries is to isolate them and charge each separately. No automotive manufacturer will ever do this because the it would make the charging circuits far more complicated (and costly) They always busy saving pennies per unit. This could cost 10's of dollars!!

It's easier to just replace those batteries every few years (read 5 years or so)

I bought a 1994 GMC K2500 Diesel Suburban brand new.

I sold it almost exactly 20 years later (last Summer 2014) .....I replaced the batteries twice in those 20 years and every time I ran them until both batteries were not only completely dead, but couldn't be charged. (AND I told the buyer it was due for battery replacement when I sold it with 210,000 miles on it)

Knowing what I know now, near battery replacement "time", I believe I was driving around with 1 of the batteries either completely failed or very close to it.

I don't, however "know" which one was the failed one. I never "checked.


If this really is a problem with the 2003-2007 Fords, Maybe it would be a good idea to make it a yearly preventive maintenance process to pull the batteries and clean all the connections. THEN put them back after swapping sides

Another way to find the problem would be to get your hands on a couple of high current meter shunts.


This one will work up to 500A The screw connections are for a 50mV (millivolt) meter




https://www.altestore.com/store/Mete...-Meters/p4638/

This allows you to measure the actual battery current (charge and discharge) on a continuous basis.

It would take 2 shunts and 2 meters (preferably zero center if analog)

With 2 brand new batteries, you could get a feel for how much current each battery is providing to the network. Or, how much current each battery is getting FROM the network during charging.


If you saw a huge difference between the two, you could look for the "bad" connection.


Cheers,


Rick


By the way! For everyone, when I have electronics or engineering questions I go to the following links to "refresh and/or edumicate" myself!!!

Below: 2 of my favorite links!!
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/

//

 

Always liked the Air Forces... they got the hottest chicks of all the branches!!!

I still think there is one issue that's not really been spoken to. We've talked of distance, resistance, charging, current flow, amperage output and ...

What I find similar to ships and our trucks is the ground itself. On a ship, you can test ground and get upwards of 43v, yes.... on a ground as it doesn't really act like a 4 phase circuit, its really 3 phase with a floating ground and is dependent on the connection to ground as a basis for flow. Bad connectors lead to higher ground voltages and in the instance of the truck... I believe that the bad connections (why cleaning the grounds gives better voltage flow by the gauge) it's truly the key to increased longevity of the batteries.

Exactly as Jack hit upon. But most people don't improve the grounding of the system, unless we have great threads like this one and they begin to realize the importance of the overall system components.

Those that don't improve the ground of the drivers side battery will experience higher or continued failure rates of the passenger battery as we've all seen or been discussed here and in other threads. That decreased charge/re-charge capacity makes the batteries un-even in a very short period of time.

On the ship, batteries in parallel from the same charge source, installed exactly at the same time and tested to be matched in every way... except the distance to battery always results in the farthest battery failing first and subsequent closer batteries follow in sequence. I can really only prove that I replace the batteries, just happens and I believe its due to flow.

That the current takes the path of least resistance until satisfied or the load demand is removed and that units further take a back seat... their path is more restricted than the closest battery, however slight. Being that, we probably will never figure out why, math may show differently, just my theory and nothing more.... old Navy guy flapping his gums.

Retired in 2007 at 24.5 years, then they hired me officially to teach them in bigger groups instead of a handful at a time. I still install and test systems they operate for Navigation and each has a battery back-up. Some of them are within 4" of each other, still have the furthest one die first followed closely by the closer one.

AArrgg....


Randy

 

Randy,

I've been on different Ford Diesel forums through 14 years and the cleaning and improvements almost always are around the top of the motor. It's only on occasion where the bottom side of the motor gets discussed.

Even I do not look down there as often, but due my testing background I clean up the topside connections at every oil change, mostly due the corrosive conditions around the terminals.

In vehicle testing we had to add all types of data acquisition in the vehicles, which included tractor trailers and transit bus. Transit was always problematic with some having both 12v and 24v circuits. We went through a lot of batteries since the test drivers would occasionally forget to power down getting out on Friday. Plus just leaving the instrumentation on for a few hours then starting would deeply pull down the batts.

I don't have the charging/starting test instrumentation I used to have so I'm limited to a 200a DC clamp-on ammeter and a few voltmeters. I know in my shooting video the 200a on the starter cable went into overload on the positive cable, but maybe in a few days I can see if I can get some readings off the negative cables since they should half the current, and see if I can document any delta between my added cable on and off.

Rick brought up a very good point about parallel charging twin batteries something that has been discussed before over the years. If I remember correctly it revolved around the normall chemical change on the battery plates over use and as one battery is drawn down more. It can also be how well recharged the battery is. Rick mentioned some sites he visits and for me I go to BatteryUniverse to review when I want to brush up on batteries.

 

That would be great to see and prove... but we already know what it should show. These kinds of threads I like!

 

Here is the segment where I tried to document the starting current but overloaded the meter. The sound during slow motion review at the end can make any auto enthusiast nauseous.

 

The slo-mo sounds almost exactly like an old Farmall to me.

Nice vid

 

I have had better experience with batteries sourced from Cat than any other batteries. If you look up the specifications, you may find that they have better specifications than any others on the market.

-Mike

 

That is what I`m running