Guys as some of you noticed, I am researching with couple guys here the performance head gaskets. I have the block tracing, the stock head gasket, and now even I have spare engine I can explore. I decided to make an open discusion here on this theme, as more heads, more opinions, more thoughts.
I have a meeting in the gasket factory on Tuesday.


We have some options:
1. the core made out of the strongest Reinz material with the steel reinforcement inside, 1.6mm thickness, both sides covered by 0.2 stainless steel full surface with 0.2mm stainless steel fire rings The guy from the factory prefers this route.


2. MLS gasket-3 steel sheats with 0.2mm firerings- more info after Tuesday meeting. The guy from the factory says however that the both surfaces, the block and heads need to be absolutely straight otherwise it does not work well


3. One piece steel gasket- option inferior to the MLS


As I looked at the head gasket, I still do not understand the receses for the valves, they stick 90 degrees to the piston right? no tilt to the side. So to my best belief the firerings can be circular.
Does the pistons at tdc actually stick out of the block a bit? All the diesel engines here do that and you have to determine the correct height of the gasket to retain correct compression ratio, usually there are four heights of head gaskets for the engine.
Do we need to open the water ports in head gaskets more to allow more circulation of the water or make some changes in the water flow or the standard head gasket holes for water are just fine?


Sorry guys for questions and my terminology, I did not graduate from engineering English


I want to collect as much info I can, as they will make tooling for the head gaskets, which is expensive, so first try right is highly desirable.


Any thoughts are welcome.

 

I would say go for option 2. Most the guys who need these gaskets are tearing the engine down enough to true up the surfaces anyway. For the others, the Victor Reinz gaskets have done pretty well. So for that reasoning go MLS.

 

ARP studs come with gaskets that are just about bulletproof from what I hear. Type four sells the sets I believe.

 

You are correct for most but Jan, Justin, and others I'm sure are researching this for the trucks that are pushing higher power levels. This is especially true for trucks with the RD180.

 

Yes the Pistons do come above deck .010 from factory. You are allowed up to .036 above deck. They do make replacement Pistons that have a compression height that is .010 shorter to help with this problem. I had to have my block deck cleaned up .006 to get rid of the fire ring groove. And I wound up with .016 above deck. Used stock felpro gaskets with no issues. I know GM makes 4 different thickness's of head gaskets for there diesel. But have not heard of different thicknesses for the 7.3 ford.

 

I thought of making thicker head gaskets and decompress the engine this way, however it puts more stress on the gasket. I am talking about gaskets that can handle extreme boost, remember Justin blew gaskets around 40-50psi peak pressure. Well to achieve bigger numbers safe we need better gaskets for reasonable money. That is the goal.

 

The biggest issue is Fire-ring structure, and whether its strong enough to withstand the lateral forces... We are stuck with the fasteners we have, so if the heads lift, even a little bit, the stock type gasket is toast. We need a gasket that will hold its shape even if a head lifts slightly, and I think either of your options will do that fine... However..


The reason steel shim gaskets aren't used any longer (Meaning one piece steel shim stuff, not MLS) is because they are finicky about seal... If you could do a rubber coated steel shim with a heavy duty fire-ring, that would most likely do the job, but then you get into issues if a head lifts slightly. Overall, an MLS would be the best for sealing, but the surfaces have to be perfect... Not an option for several people...


I really think its going to be a matter of fire-ring rigidity, regardless of anything else, and I would probably Err on the side of cost at that point.

 

Why couldn't you make a gasket like a Victor Reins gasket, but comprised of three layers - gasket material, steel, gasket material. Steel fire rings like usual.
This would give you the "squishability" of the typical gasket material, plus a layer of steel inside to support the fire rings and keep them from distorting.

Would this work?

edit:
Also, what about copper gaskets? Or copper gaskets with steel fire rings and typical gasket material "inserts" for sealing the oil and water ports.

 

I think this may be the big winner... The core really is the issue, so maybe a compound like the stoker may work ok, but I am worried on it burning away if a head does slightly lift... That's what killed my fel-pro's beyond stretching the fire-rings.


Copper is great for strength, but you would at very least have to have an O-ring (Stainless) in the block, and not having a receiver groove in the head makes sealing finicky as well... Not to mention its a PITA to seal the water jackets...

 

Can you explain more about this? I'm not sure what you mean.

How hard is it to cut a groove in some cast iron? The only hard part would be machining over the precups; unless you work around them somehow?

If you are going to all the effort to make a custom head gasket, how much harder is it to either insert a sealing material of some sort, or actually machine a groove into the block for an O-ring? Or something?

(Please note; I'm more asking about the technical details here... I'm not saying it's a good idea).

 

The Reinz material he offered has a steel grid inside and is rated to 1652 Fahrenheit, plus the both sides coated with stainless steel layer and stainless steel firering is what the guy thinks would do the job. We talked on the phone yesterday, he is really nice and into the job. We plan on meeting on Tuesday, he will take me to the factory, show all the materials, stress tests and such. I am looking forward to it.

 

Some gassers can get away sealing combustion gases with no O-ring, but boosted diesels need that O-ring at the very least to "Smash" part of the gasket where the traditional fire-ring would be. The receiver groove is just extra insurance on that point in that it allows the gasket to form into the head and around the O-ring, basically making combustion seal bulletproof. The issue with IDI's, is we can cut a groove in the block no problem, I have the tool to do it, but the pre-cup is very hard to machine... It would require CNC'd pre-cups, and a shop to cut the groove in the head without the cup in place, and then they would have to match up perfectly.


Flatout, the gasket company I talked to has a Rubber coated copper gasket they sell (Which they would be able to customize for us), but the guy was so rude on the phone, I don't even want to deal with the place.

 

Interesting... well I am interested to here the info when you get it Jan.

 

You are the first one to hear news

 

I would think option #1 is the most interesting just because it is slightly more forgiving. I hate the idea that any microscopic flaw could ruin the seal and the whole job is screwed. Let's see what the gasket maker tells you, I am really curious how this will turn out.