ok... i've been putting this off for awhile now.
my 2004 FX4 screw with 180k on the clock is getting a little too chatty with the phasers.
from what i researched just replacing the phasers is not going to permanently fix the issue
so i think now is a good time to open up the engine and replace the following:

timing set/gears and chain with new phasers.
lock out kit. i found a race shop that is drastically cheaper than the Livernois kit. he sells the lock out wedges for $45 and will reprogram your ECU for $250.

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guess i'll loose a spot in the garage while we do this, i was wondering if i should replace the water pump and oil pump while i got everything apart?

any other suggestions on what to look for replace while i got the engine opened up?

thanks
-mike

 

Mike,
definitely change the oil pump, if you have chain slack, you most likely will have damaged chain guides. the pieces will get sucked up into the oil pump, and can cause flow problems, creating further damage to the valve train.

also, i would at least check over valve components to ensure everything there is also working properly. (lash adjusters, cam followers, etc)

 

thanks, i'll go ahead and get the oil pump while i'm in there.
the timing set comes with new chain guides and hardware.

the other question, should i replace the phasers with new ones or just install the wedges in the originals?

i know i'll need new phaser bolts. if i can reuse the phasers that will save me $200 or so

 

@mjlewis, why would you put in new phaser's - then disable them with a lockout? For that matter, why would anyone install lockouts anyway other than having fallen prey to the Livernois advertising carefully choreographed testimonials posted here (mostly) by Livernois people. ie: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...ery-quite.html.


If you want to do that on the cheap, just cut you a piece of hard rubber from an old motor mount and jamb it in one of the phaser chambers and put the cover back on. (See photo #6 in the first post of the above link). You can get rid of the permanent MIL by cutting a trace on the instrument cluster circuit board. (What is the real difference in doing this versus the Livernois ECU "tune" to get rid of the CAM ERROR MIL? If other codes really matter, they can be read with a code reader (which is always used to "read" the error code anyway.


However, on a more serious note, the 5.4 was designed to develope power and operate at low RPMs, and VVT System (in conjunction with the IMRC - Swirl Control Valve, widens the power curve to accomodate the low RPM operation. It allows elimination of the EGR valve and cooling combustion temperatures (and improves overall fuel economy) under light load - closed loop - conditions. Monitoring the OBDII extended PIDs for the variable valve timing system in real time reveals the ECU is applying some degree of retard to the cams a VERY large percentage of operating conditions. More info on these PIDs in this post. https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post15275759 Disabling VVT with lockouts locks the cam in the design position intended for the upper end of the power curve and maximum engine load - such as where the ECU drops OUT of Closed Loop and IMRC Swirl control opens up. They HAVE to degrade torque and fuel economy, even though they would take away the characteristic noise that comes from almost ALL 5.4s Even after many people have spent hundreds of dollars trying to remove the noise -(at idle only) - where the ECU moves phasers by shutting down the VCT solenoids to run phasers to full advance position, same position lockouts establishes permanently.


Just some food for thought. Good luck whatever you decide to do.

 

thanks for the reply
i guess i didnt know what all the phaser lockouts did.
with 180k on the clock i thought that replacing the timing chains, gears and phasers would be a good preventative maintenance measure.
i've seen many people argue the usefulness of the VVT and low RPM's. both for and against.
i agree about the Livernois posts. they have the exact same posts on multiple BBS's for F150's

 

I don't know if I would do it as a "preventative maintenance" without experiencing DTC codes or other symptoms beyond the characteristic 5.4L diesel sound and ticking noise. You did not mention symptoms or codes. Mine has ticked and dieseled all its 200k + life, but has recently gotten to the point I can reliably cause a P0022 code. So I'm facing the same chore. And my reasoning on the lockout thing is based largely on the fact that practically ALL engines, even heavy duty trucks, have gone to some form of the technology. Their engineers (smarter than I am) must know its better - (even if it is only for the environment)- that convinces me to try to salvage the design improvement over the hot rods of my high school.


I have done lots of research on the Variable Valve Timing issue and systems after beginning to experience a perceptible loss of power. If you have access to a scan tool, some of my research that is very on point and might benefit you and can be found here: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post15275759


One curious aspect to me that I haven't researched adequately yet is the possibility / advantage of installing chain guides and tensioners from an earlier (1999?) model because they were metal instead of plastic.??? I may try to order BOTH (from a supplier who will refund the ones not used).


And to comment on your other question - I would replace the water pump and idler pulleys - but not necessarily the oil pump (unless indicated by an after market oil pressure gauge). Low oil pressure indicates OTHER problems - main or cam bearings or other points of pressure loss - such as likely the cam chain tensioners.


Again - Good luck on the chore.

 

Theoretically there should be no benefit of installing metal chain guides over the plastic ones, the issue with the plastic ones is that when the tensioners wear out or fail-which is common, that allows chain slack. when the chains loosen and slap the guides, they tend to crack and break. this can lead to a whole slew of other problems (oil pump clogging, as i previously mentioned). so if you were to replace the tensioners in the rebuild, metal guides should not be necessary. (although i do not agree with putting anything plastic inside of an engine).

Not to argue your point on the oil pump,but i have heard of debris clogging the oil pickup tube, replacing may not be necessary, but again, checking wouldn't hurt.

As far as the lockouts go, i would agree with F150torqued, though engineers don't get it quite right all the time, they designed these motors the way they did for a reason, and they know more than we do about them. But that is your call.

And for preventative maintenance, i would at least check over your valve-train, because i have seen trucks that make the diesel noise with no engine codes, but some cam followers had failed, scoring the camshaft. Though preventative maintenance may not be necessary, a thorough check-up can never hurt.

 

well we got the front of the engine off and i got a quick question..
what cam phasers does everyone recommend...

some are $110 (dorman) or so and the EOM Ford phasers are $220/240
so folks say that the low cost phasers are junk, others say they're ok...
with the ford phasers you know what you're getting, but if i can save a few bucks with the lower cost phasers that would be good.

any thoughts?

 

Even though neither guarantees longer term success, after going that far, I would resist the temptation to save a few bucks.

 

btw, i'm going to save a few $$$ by not installing the lockouts.
we're going to replace the timing chain set, the VCT's water pump and maybe the oil pump. i want to see how much damage there is to the plastic chain guides and see if there's plastic chunks in the oil pan...

i agree with the sludge comments on this board...
when we got this truck in March we changed the oil to full syn, i wonder if all the detergents and lower viscosity helped clean the passages up a bit causing the tensioners and phasers to fail.
i'll post pics later today when we actually get the front cover off and can inspect it better.

thanks

 

@mjlewis I know it's just my opinion (and like noses - everybody's got one), but I'm glad you decided not to install lockouts. Whatever the intended design benefits, might as well try to preserve them if we can. One good article instrumental in forming my opinion is here: Variable Valve Timing Diagnostic Tips | KnowYourParts


I will be interested in what your inspection shows. My '04 5.4L just threw me a new curve yesterday. [ good ?? or as yet unknown ?? ] I've been able to reliably "cause" an MIL with P0022 DTC by erratic fluctuation of the accelerator for the last several months. (No other codes). Haven't reset the last MIL for some time now. Then, yesterday upon mid-day restart, the MIL was _GONE_ - all by itself!. I promptly checked the appropriate PIDs with my Torque Pro APP and - sure enough the MIL status bit is in fact gone (although the PCM still reports the last DTC as P0022), and the OBDII CLRWRMUP (PID 16DC) indicates 67 ignition / warm-up cycles since I last cleared codes !!!!. And the signature "tick" is quieter, and I sense improved responsiveness. I also notice the Extended PID's I monitor (namely CAMERRR) showing variation between requested retard and actual retard has settled down - a lot!! All this with > 206,000 on the clock. May have something to do with my multiple "engine flush" exercises on recent frequent oil changes.


So I will be following your progress. Good luck on your project.

 

finally got a few hours this evening to help my son pull off the front cover.
looking at the driver's side chain and guides... looks good
passenger's side a different story...
a lot of chain slack, busted guide and a chewed inside front cover...

 

Thanks for the great pics. Can clearly see where the chain was getting against the upper inside of the cover on Bank 1. Did you have heavy 'slapping' noise or "chain rattle" on fluctuating throttle?


I did not know (never thought about it) that you could remove the timing over without pulling valve covers !! But, are you planning on replacing the Phasers?

I see the part of broken guide in the first two pics, but the bank 1 guide in pics 3, 4, & 5 does not appear it would allow such scuffing of the front cover. Have you already replaced the guides? They actually look fine to me... ???

 

Great pictures! Just a word of advice, if you do pull the valve covers, it might be wise to inspect other timing components such as lash adjusters and cam followers, as low oil pressure from bad phasers and tensioners can cause harm to them.

Also i am equally as curious as f150torqued as to the chain slap noise you were experiencing? how bad was it? i am experiencing a chain slap on startup for a couple seconds, and this has driven me to decide to do the same repairs as yourself, so i will be following your progress and outcome!

and if you wouldn't mind sharing a parts list and cost, that would be helpful!

good luck!

 

this is my 19 year old son's truck so i'm using this as a 'teaching moment' and letting him do the work, i'm buying the parts. this way i can make sure the job is done right rather than sending it to a garage to get done.
i think this is a straight forward job, just time consuming and he seems to enjoy doing some real engine work instead of watching/helping.

he's having some issues with getting the valve cover off with the A/C tubing. he'll figure it out. i'm just standing back and helping when he gets frustrated.

looking at the condition of the drivers side chains and the amount of RTV on the front cover this is the second time this job has been performed on this engine.
if u look at the inside front cover pics, u can see where the previous chain guide failure gouged the inside cover (oil stained chewed up areas)

i pulled one of the VCT's and the internal wire screen mesh was missing on the upper assembly, i'll get a pic of that later.
i'm just curious on how much plastic chunks are circulating around in the oil passages...
we'll check the oil pan and try to figure out how to check the pickup tube.
i'm also going to install a mechanical oil gauge while we got everything off...

so this is our parts list so far.

timing chain rebuild kit, oil pump, water pump $250 from ebay
genuine ford phasers (3R2Z-6A257-DA) $230 each from Amazon (prime has free 2 day shipping!)
i gotta go out and price some VCT's but i'm budgeting $100 or so for the pair, i'll try to find ford parts.

as far as chain rattle, i don't recall it being noisy, but the phasers were ticking loudly and he said that there was no power from the engine on acceleration.

we'll check the upper head assembly when we get the valve covers off.
does anyone have a link to the valve lash adjustment procedures?

thanks.