Ok, so I just replaced the entire timing set (phasers, chains, sprocket, tensioners ect) on my 2004 f150 5.4l about a month ago. I also extracted ALL 8 spark plugs and replaced those with the Champion 1 piece plugs. In addition, I replaced the intake manifold because I did this job when it was 20 degrees outside and I found a crack. Soooo, all that being said I put the whole truck back together and it runs like New. Until about a month later.
When the engine gets hot, maybe after about a 30 minute drive or so, it has a really really rough idle until I give it a little bit of gas. Then it clears up. It has only done it 3 times since I put the engine back together. It might go 2 weeks and not do it.
No codes
Any ideas what I could be? EGR? MAS air? Let me know if you have any ideas...
Only other thing I can think to say is if you get on it out on the highway, after about 3k rpms it seems like the power drops off quite a bit. Like the engine isn't getting enough fuel. I guess it could be just me, but it just doesnt seem right. Thanks in advance to anyone who can help. I guess I could try to unplug the MAS air flow sensor to see if that helps.

 

Another interesting point I wanted to make was the hardest part of the whole job for me was putting the intake back on.
When I was trying to pull the intake manifold the plastic oval shaped shroud around the electrical pins on the side of the intake runner controll broke leaving the pins exposed. So when i put it back together there was no clip to hook up the electrical connector to. So i had hooked it up backwards initially. I replaced the intake manifold and the runner controll and fixed that issue.
The next problem I had with re installing the manifold was the brake booster vacume line that hooks to the bottom/back of the manifold. It's just long enough to be hooked when the intake is down in place. I struggled with this for hours. There isn't enough room! So i ran my own new vacuum hose with some header heat resistant wrap around the hose where the hose touches the valve cover on its way to the brake booster.
In the back of my head I am wandering if that new hose it touching the runber controll bars...

 

Aw come on folks! Any kind of a blink of an idea to get ke started atleast??

 

I do not know if I can offer much help. But I definitely relate to the intake manifold change - and I did the same thing (running a new 3/8 vacuum hose to the brake booster. It was a little confusing to me whether the knock sensor wires and the intake runner control plug wires should run "in front of" the IMRC linkage or behind the linkage (toward the firewall). It seems like it should be the latter - but I finally decided on mine "in front of the linkage nearer the intake manifold" worked best.


I would recommend you try to get access to an inspection camera to check yours for any obstruction - booster hose OR wiring. In cold weather, if the IMRC doesn't close all the way - the fuel charge isn't atomized as efficiently and could result in rough idle / reduced mileage. I note - you have NO EGR, so it can't be that.


Secondly - seems an elementary question, but do you have any codes? On these modern machines, without them, we shade tree mechanics are playing pin the tail on the donkey.


I'm Just looking for the donkey board now --- but your parts list in the first post did not mention VCT Solenoids. Did you replace them too. If not, and if they are sticking they can cause intermittent "rough idle" by one Cam being retarded and the other Not.


I am currently in a lengthy process of analyzing my 200K mile '04 5.4L for variable valve timing issues - as I am experiencing similar symptoms.


I think I have determined thicker oils may exacerbate problems with the VCT Solenoids. What weight oil are you running?

I have learned if the ECU detects too many, or severe cam position errors, it sets a flag and shuts down the variable valve timing system (disables it) for the balance of that drive cycle - leaving cams in the "default" position. This effects lowest end torque and upper end power - but not mid-range because the VVT is not retarding valve timing during that range. Multiple occurrences of CAMERR apparently precedes setting of code P0022. At least that is what my diagnostics is pointing to on my truck.


Would be interested in your outcome


Thanks

 

Thanks for the reply buddy! You have a lot of knowlege on this and I am glad im talking to you!

To answer your questions, I first have a question. Would my new 3/8 brake booster hose touching the steel rods going from the runner controll to the corners of the intake effect idle. There wasn't Mich room to run the new hose up. That's probably my problem...!!

Also NO codes! Wish there was to give me a clue but no..LOL

I had the old VCT solonoids out and I thought hmm I should replace these. I called parts store and they were $120 a piece!! I thought , no it was running good before this job so no. Did not change them. I think I could easily change them later if need be.

Also, I always use Motorcraft 10w-20 blend oil and filter.

So I'm thinking that darn hose is messing with my bars on the back of the intake.

Bit get this! I just started hearing my chIns rattle a slight bit when I axcelerate. Then I stomp on the gas and down shift. After that the chains quite rattleing. I guess due to oil pressure building and pumping up the tensioners... Thoughts?

Thanks a bunch BTW!!

 

New chain rattle is once a week and I can barely hear them. Then the rattle goes away....

 

When I installed the new tensioners, I made sure all old gasket material was gone the surface in there was clean. So I don't know if there is a small oil leak or what.

 

does the engine knock like it loses oil pressure or just idle rough.

 

It doesn't really knock. It sounds more like half of the cylinders are not fireing.

 

I had to change my fuel filter it was not allowing enough fuel to pass through the system.
Just a thought.

 

@FordGuy85; RE: your Post # 5.


I didn't abandon you... I've been following this thread - and think I have something useful to add.


FIRST, I do not believe your 3/8 vacuum hose interfering with the IMRC steel rods would be causing your rough idle.


You indicate in that post that you opted NOT to replace VTC Solenoids. That may be a mistake. If you have since changed them you may disregard much of these ramblings.


As I mentioned in post #4 above, I have been researching/digging and have identified and decoded four non-standard OBD-II PID's relating to the variable valve timing system. Armed With that info I have created custom gauges on my Torque Pro App to monitor 1) "VCTENA" - VCT Control Circuit Enable, ON/OFF, [PID 16B1, bit 5]: 2) "RCAM" - VCT Solenoid Commanded in Crank Shaft Degrees, in DEGREES, [PID 16CD]: 3) "CAMERRR" - VCT Error in Crankshaft Degrees, in DEGREES, [PID 16CE]; and 4) "CAMDCR" Commanded Duty Cycle for VCT Solenoid, in %, [PID 16CF].


By monitoring these gauges under various operating conditions, I believe my VCT solenoids may be "sticky" or not actuating smoothly - and may relate to the symptom of "intermittent rough idle". I have noted:


a) The VVT system ALWAYS begins on startup with VCTENA "ON", whether there is currently a DTC or not. At each startup, CAMDCR is at Zero %; RCAM and CAMERRR both at ZERO degrees.


b) Any load or gentle acceleration results in RCAM increasing -retard (from 0 degrees to -60 degrees), and CAMDCR bobbles around from 12.5% to 50-60%


c) _ANY_ CAMERRR at idle is a noticeable rough idle. Sometimes I can create that condition with many gentle taps on the accelerator - almost like you report .


d) CAMERRR (scale is -60 to +60) jumps on mine - often to +/-20 degrees and sometimes to +/-60 degrees when the level of CAMDCR (Commanded Duty Cycle on the solenoids) changes - UP or Down in response to RCAM. Whether it is (+) or (-) apparently depends whether the cams are commanded to GO TO > retard, or RETURN < TO 0 degrees retard. This "jump" lasts for random times from 1 sec to 5-10 seconds. In my little "p-brain", that suggests my VTC Solenoids are operating - BUT NOT smoothly. Apparently ???, since there are TWO Solenoids, Cams, and position sensors - and separate DTC Codes, the ECU can tell if/which cam is not matching RCAM (the desired/requested retard degrees) and sets the appropriate DTC.


e) if these CAMERRR conditions occur too many times (how many ???), the VCTENA goes "OFF" for the duration of that drive cycle - THERE IS NO MORE CAM RETARD for that drive cycle! I can detect a "loss of power" or "responsiveness" when this happens!!! After this happens multiple (how many ???) times, a Code is set indicating over advance (+) or over-retard (-) on Bank 1 or Bank2. [P0011, 0012, 0021, 0022 respectively]


f) I have been able to reliably cause ("SET") a DTC code by running in 2nd gear about 40mph and repeatedly fluctuating the accelerator between load / coast. CAMERRR goes CRAZY!! After doing that maybe thirty / forty times it sets a code (generally P0022). In my "p-brain", I think that tells me Bank 2 VCT Solenoid is sticking - probably most times open, or it is NOT relieving oil pressure. I have set most ALL the other codes on occasion. _This_ condition appears to worsen when running thicker viscosity oil, although the stock "idle tick" is quieter.


FINALLY, Walking into or calling local "Ford Stealers" resulted in quotations around 120.00 - 130.00 each for Motorcraft solenoids of the "updated" type - 8L3Z6M280-B. HOWEVER - going online at FordParts.com, (which web site ultimately routed me right back to my local dealerships) got me a price from my local Lincoln dealership for $55.69 each if I pick them up. I guess "on line" they have to compete with Dorman! Also, Amazon lists them at $47.90 - free shipping with Prime.


I'm changing out BOTH solenoids on my 200K mile 04 - still running original phasers / chains / tensioners etc.

 

Some people have reported the Champion plugs act up after a short time in some motors others not so much try the ford plugs to see if it change it
also check the driver fuel pump module behind the spare tire for corrosion to the outer cover

 

Wow! You have really done your research! Amazing really!

So here is a update on my truck. I got a scope and looked down the brake booster vacume line to see if the fuel runner rods were hitting anything. They were touching my vacume hose that had the header wrap on to protect from heat.

I had a buddy rev the engine and sure enough those rods move and the drivers side rod end was rubbing. So I zip tied the hose away from the rod end to try to keep the part moving free....

Trucks bad idle has gone away. Indeed the phaser soloniods might be the cause of my chain starting to rattle??

I figure it is a bad soloniod might be causing this but I'm more thinking its a bad tensioner. I put ALL Ford parts in my engine taking great care looking for debree on the back of the tensioners before the install.

Chains only rattle under load and most often when the engine is cold.

When i am cruising on the highway @80 or so mph with cruise controll, I start up a incline and hear the chains rattle under load. So I turn off cruise and rpms drop then i step on the gas and no rattle! Like the tensioners are getting starved of iol.

Like i said, I figure its a bad tensioner from factory bit could ve soloniod. What sends oil to the tensioners??


Thanks again for the help !!!

 

Thanks for the comment! I will keep that fuel pump module in mind!

 

Do you guys think pieces of the guides are restricting the oil pick up in the oil pan thus starving the tensioners?