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well we broke the collar of the spring compression tool and ended up using a screw driver to get the rest of the rocker arms out. waste of $125
we also had to remove the cams. quick job turned into an all day adventure.
had to remove the phasers and replace with new bolts. stuck a piece of wood with a metal rod to 'catch' the chain so i didnt skip teeth on the crankshaft gear.
i recommend that when you have the motor opened up doing the phasers and timing chain you also replace the lash adjusters. several fell apart on removal.
the 5 broke lifters were on the back of the engine...
wonder if its oil flow/pressure related. there is a lot of built up 'crud' on the lifters. they must be the originals.
hopefully we'll get the valve covers back on tonight and running
thought that this would a quick job. not so much.
well we broke the collar of the spring compression tool and ended up using a screw driver to get the rest of the rocker arms out.
Hummmm - guess I won't be trying to relieve you of that fancy spring compressing tool.
My research and analysis of the situation brings me to fully agree with you about replacing the lash adjusters and followers. I believe that's the source of my "on again" - "off again" tick somewhere on the rear of the passenger side.
Question: How did your cam lobes and journals look? Did you replace cam bearings?
we had the 'on again, off again' ticking on the drivers side bank. sometimes it was fine and other times it sounded like a ticking timebomb.
the followers/rockers looked great. had some cleanup and they looked like new.
cam lobes looked great. normal wear no scoring or gouges.
there are no cam bearings. it just rides in the journal... weird.
...
there are no cam bearings. it just rides in the journal... weird.
WHAT?
I've got to change my helper initiation prank. Instead of sending them to get me a "sky hook", I'll send them to AutoZone to get me a set of "cam bearings" for a 5.4L Triton engine!
You sent me looking at my Factory Service Manual - and sure enough, the CAM Specs read:
Journal diameter_____________________|___ 28.607-28.633 mm (1.126-1.127 in)
Camshaft journal bore inside diameter____|___ 28.657-28.682 mm (1.128-1.129 in)
Camshaft journal-to-bearing clearance____|___ 0.024-0.075 mm (0.001-0.003 in)
What are we supposed to do if there is loss of oil pressure from wear of these surfaces?
ALSO: Your focusing my attention on this specification table may shed additional light on the "on-again" "off-again" 5.4L TICK - and how that relates to the intermittent "rough idle". NOTE the CAM LOBE specs - and the spec of VALVE LIFT at the other end of the cantilever style roller follower.
Theoretical valve lift @ 0 lash ____|___ intake 11.1 mm (0.437 in)
Theoretical valve lift @ 0 lash ____|___ exhaust 11.0 mm (0.433 in)
Lobe lift _____________________|___ intake 5.520 mm (0.217 in)
Lobe lift _____________________|___ exhaust 5.506 mm (0.217 in)
Allowable lobe lift loss __________|___ 0.127 mm (0.005 in)
A .217" cam lobe is amplified to a .433" valve lift. Allowable lobe lift loss is specified at .005". IF THE LASH ADJUSTER sticks, or hydraulically leaks down under resistance of the valve spring ----- the loss of actual valve lift would be APPROXIMATELY DOUBLED. That could result in a significant change in cylinder volume exchange - intake or exhaust, either of which would effect idle smoothness.
These things should more appropriately be discussed in a new thread - But THANK YOU for making it click for me.
I've got to change my helper initiation prank. Instead of sending them to get me a "sky hook", I'll send them to AutoZone to get me a set of "cam bearings" for a 5.4L Triton engine!
You sent me looking at my Factory Service Manual - and sure enough, the CAM Specs read:
Journal diameter_____________________|___ 28.607-28.633 mm (1.126-1.127 in)
Camshaft journal bore inside diameter____|___ 28.657-28.682 mm (1.128-1.129 in)
Camshaft journal-to-bearing clearance____|___ 0.024-0.075 mm (0.001-0.003 in)
What are we supposed to do if there is loss of oil pressure from wear of these surfaces?
ALSO: Your focusing my attention on this specification table may shed additional light on the "on-again" "off-again" 5.4L TICK - and how that relates to the intermittent "rough idle". NOTE the CAM LOBE specs - and the spec of VALVE LIFT at the other end of the cantilever style roller follower.
Theoretical valve lift @ 0 lash ____|___ intake 11.1 mm (0.437 in)
Theoretical valve lift @ 0 lash ____|___ exhaust 11.0 mm (0.433 in)
Lobe lift _____________________|___ intake 5.520 mm (0.217 in)
Lobe lift _____________________|___ exhaust 5.506 mm (0.217 in)
Allowable lobe lift loss __________|___ 0.127 mm (0.005 in)
A .217" cam lobe is amplified to a .433" valve lift. Allowable lobe lift loss is specified at .005". IF THE LASH ADJUSTER sticks, or hydraulically leaks down under resistance of the valve spring ----- the loss of actual valve lift would be APPROXIMATELY DOUBLED. That could result in a significant change in cylinder volume exchange - intake or exhaust, either of which would effect idle smoothness.
These things should more appropriately be discussed in a new thread - But THANK YOU for making it click for me.
I don't understand why these engines don't have cam bearings, myself. The journal is an aluminum surface, I believe. If they get scored, head replacement is required. I have heard of some people line boring them and installing steel journal bearings.
Hummmm - guess I won't be trying to relieve you of that fancy spring compressing tool.
My research and analysis of the situation brings me to fully agree with you about replacing the lash adjusters and followers. I believe that's the source of my "on again" - "off again" tick somewhere on the rear of the passenger side.
Question: How did your cam lobes and journals look? Did you replace cam bearings?
this tool looks easy to use (and hopefully cheaper)
think we fixed the problem.
went in and reseated the wiring harness on the driver's side injectors and now it seems to run great.
drove it 20 miles to 'pump up the lash adjusters'.
check engine light is off and it seems to run great.
small ticking noise, but it sounds different. probably the fuel injectors.
this is by far the most work we've done on a engine short of a complete top end rebuild. which looks like we should have done while we had everything off.
i'm glad that my 20 year old son was home to do the labor. i hate to see what the bill would have been if i'd taken it into a garage for the work.
broken OTC spring compression tool and old lash adjusters/lifters. several broke apart on removal.
so in conclusion. i would recommend that you replace/check all the lifters and rocker arms when you have the front cover off to do the phasers and timing chains.
would have saved me a weekend of work.
truck is running great now. no codes, no hesitation on acceleration and (knock on wood...) no more ticking issues.
maybe we're too quick sometimes to point to the phasers as the problem and not check the lifters.
thanks for everyone's advice, help and support during this maintenance. i love the f150's... awesome truck, maybe not as strong as my 7.3PSD F250... but a much better ride and more comfortable. plus its cheaper to replace parts on the 5.4 than my 7.3 diesel...
In hopes of putting your mind at ease on this issue a little, I'll share some of my studying on the issue oil flow and sludge concerns which appear often on these forums.
It is NEAR - if not ABSOLUTELY - impossible for chunks of chain guides (as well as caked oil deposits -"sludge"-) to get into the oil passages in the 5.4L engine. If it isn't stopped by the oil pickup screen, it would pass easily through the 'gearator' type oil pump and be stopped by the oil filter. From there the clean, pure, "hot" oil is enclosed within the main oil supply gallery in the engine block and not susceptible to contamination. It is moving fairly fast and not susceptible to roasting or frying into the typical pumice type deposits. The galleys carry what is not used in lubricating the bottom end through "restrictors" into passage ways in the heads where, again, it is still hot clean, filtered, protected, supply oil until it lubricates the cam journals and lash adjusters, where some "splashes" on lobes and followers and becomes return oil draining back into the pan. The rest continues on through the screens of the VCT Solenoids and then into the phasers and chain tensioners where leakage, splash, and bleed-off from phaser actuation drains back down the timing chain cover / chain and into the pan, where the cycle repeats. Any junk in the passage ways would be stopped by the solenoid screens to protect the phasers.
However, I do believe it is "imperative to check/clean the oil pickup screen. ANY junk or sludge in the pan will ultimately cover the screen and cause the oil pump to "cavitate" and churn the oil up into foam - causing definite oil pressure problems.
Wishing you good luck - and following your progress. Thanks for sharing with us.
Are you aware that oil filters bypass when pressure differential occurs? Some unfiltered oil can and will get by the filter.
My truck just went into "limp" mode yesterday, bucking like a bronco....It has 198, 000 miles on it, no rust. I'm thinking of trying this myself...can't afford a new truck. How long will this repair last..? What special tools will I need...a precise parts list...? I've replaced the VCT's about 6 months ago...just replaced the passenger side exhaust manifold because it blew and sounded like crap when cold start. Just pisses me off why Ford let this go out the door. Is there a class action suit going..?
is isn't too difficult of a job. just took a long time.
just take your time and you should be ok.
no special tools needed... as you can see the only special tool i bought broke... (the valve spring compressor)
ebay was a good source of parts for me. they have several timing chain rebuild kits.
i found the genuine ford cam phasers on amazon.
the lifters i also found on ebay as well.
200k is alot of miles. some people might not think so but it is.
my F250 diesel (7.3 turbo) started to give me problems around 200k also.
as far as class action lawsuits... i dont think there's any out there. it would difficult to argue with an engine with 200k on the clock.
at 188,000 miles we did the following:
1. replace plugs and coils
2. replace belt, tensioner
3. replace cam phasers, timing chain, chain guildes, tensioners, timing gears, water and oil pump
4. replaced lifters
5. replaced the VCT valves
and finally put on a new flowmaster exhaust.
after a year the truck is still running great. we put 10k miles on it since the maintenance and we haven't had a problem with the engine.
if you have any other questions please let me know and i'll try to help out.
Are you aware that oil filters bypass when pressure differential occurs? Some unfiltered oil can and will get by the filter.
Sorry - I just noticed this response when reading the two recent thread posts.
NO - I am not aware that oil filters bypass. And that's not where the story ends. If I ever find out new oil filter I buy is designed in such a way that it can bypass one bit of unfiltered oil into the engine oil galleys - that oil filter manufacturer will have the biggest lawsuit against it that the industry has ever seen.
My oil pump has a spring loaded bypass valve built into it that bypasses excess oil flow back into the oil pan sump (thus regulating maximum oil pressure to about 95 lbs). If the oil filter gets totally plugged up - that spring loaded valve will keep the oil filter from swelling up like a balloon - and my engine oil pressure will drop appropriately. But the oil filter best not let any an ounce of unfiltered oil get into my engine.
NO CAM BEARINGS!
