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Gary is right about the ammeter.
They don't like the 60A they are designed for.
ANY 1G is not going to touch the 3G at idle or anywhere else in the rpm range.
Cheap and dirty.... find a Taurus at the JY and get it with the harness and megafuse you need for $50 all in.
No need to thank me, just enjoy a charging system that actually works as it's supposed to!
What we are trying to say is "do it right". The old system is limited at every turn. If you upgrade one area the next one is too weak to cope. But if you go with a 3G and the associated fuse and charging cable, plus headlight relays, you'll solve all of the electrical problems in one go.
I got a 3G for $35 with a warranty. And I got the fuse and charging cable with it. Then I paid maybe $10 for the relay box shown earlier. So for around $75 inc the voltmeter I would have been set.
The last 3 posts say it all and rap this up correctly (posts 75-77)
You can't compare a 3G to a 1G as they are a totally different design.
3G's are parallel polyphase ALT. Think twice the winding's.
Trying to shove 100 amps through 60 amp wiring is a bad idea.
Adding a extra wire to help feed the extra current takes the amp meter out of the system.
I did my 3G ALT for under $20 and you can put off the voltmeter swap, I did for 2 years.
The last 3 posts say it all and rap this up correctly (posts 75-77)
You can't compare a 3G to a 1G as they are a totally different design.
3G's are parallel polyphase ALT. Think twice the winding's.
Trying to shove 100 amps through 60 amp wiring is a bad idea.
Adding a extra wire to help feed the extra current takes the amp meter out of the system.
I did my 3G ALT for under $20 and you can put off the voltmeter swap, I did for 2 years.
Jim
Not exactly trying to compare a 3G to a 1G. I just basically figure I would like to pad my generating ability a little bit. This is a basic model truck with A/C that I will add a couple spotlights to and maybe a small amp but thats about it. I think 100A would be ideal for what I want and think anything over 100A is just a waste as I would never need more than 100A in this truck.
Now as far as shoving 100A through a 60A wire, I already planned on running a secondary jumper wire in 8Ga from the alternator battery terminal to the solenoid as a precaution for the higher output.
Now as far as the ammeter goes, I could just unplug it and drive just fine, my Mercury didnt have the wire soldered in the right spot for one with a ammeter it was wired into one for a idiot light. Well I drove the car for five years and the alternator is still with me and when I finally did fix it the ammeter worked. My ammeter goes up to 65A listing and my alternator is a factory 75A alternator. So to say going with a higher amperage alternator will fry my ammeter and burn my ammeter wiring I will have to say I dont believe it. I saw it said that the wiring dont like 60A, well then that means if I went and bought a factory remanufactured 1G alternator for this truck, it would burn up my ammeter as all are remanufactured to 70A you cant buy a 1G reman for a '82 F150 from part stores for anything other than 70A.
The other thing is when my factory regulator went out on my Mercury, it went to full output but at idle my ammeter read just a hair past center. When I came off idle the needle would shoot up to almost 60A and this is a 75A alternator. I drove for two days like this before I figured out what was wrong and corrected it. That was done four years ago and the ammeter still to this day works.
Now I will say I appreciate all the replies and the help I have received but I just feel that I am being pressured into a 3G upgrade when I dont think I really need it. I will however be calling Finch up that rebuilds starters and alternators that we use at work for custom hotrod builds and I will ask him this question about the ammeter running a higher amperage alternator. Cause lets face it if my 55A alternator goes out tomorrow and I go buy a new one it will be a 70A one as thats what they rebuild all of them to. I checked Advanced, Autozone, Oreilly, Napa, Pepboys, etc they all only list a 70A alternator for this truck.
Rusty - I didn't realize you are running a #8 wire from the alternator to the solenoid. In that case you won't have problems with the shunt or ammeter as they will effectively be out of play, as shown below. But, as is also shown, the fusible link will be out of play so you won't have any protection, so you need to put a fuse in the link you are installing.
As for the alternator, you aren't being pressured. You are being told the facts by two people who really know what they are talking about - Jim and Jim. But you have your mind made up, and that's ok. But if you don't listen to some of this advice you have the possibility of burning your truck up.
I actually like the 1G ALT, but I am not a fan of the 2G due to the output power connector melt down issues. It is a simple basic easy to work on design. If I had a 1G I would have just left it as is.
But, as is, in my case meant, ... with the lights on, heater fan on high and the brakes held on at a stop light you could hear the heater fan slow down. I really didn't care as the light would turn green soon and all would be fine again. I only have stock loads, no extra stuff.
I think the only point that still needs to be stressed is that in the above low current output at idle... it would be exactly the same with a 55, 60, 65 or 70 version of a 1G ALT or even 100 amp 1G ALT super rebuild. Think of it as the same ALT, just a different salesman
Rusty - I didn't realize you are running a #8 wire from the alternator to the solenoid. In that case you won't have problems with the shunt or ammeter as they will effectively be out of play, as shown below. But, as is also shown, the fusible link will be out of play so you won't have any protection, so you need to put a fuse in the link you are installing.
As for the alternator, you aren't being pressured. You are being told the facts by two people who really know what they are talking about - Jim and Jim. But you have your mind made up, and that's ok. But if you don't listen to some of this advice you have the possibility of burning your truck up.
Well I wasnt going to remove the orignal harness, I was just going to bolt down a 8 Ga wire to the battery post on the Alternator ontop of the factory one and then run it up to the Solenoid. The thing that it comes back to is that it has been said anything over 60A, the factory ammeter and harness wont like it. Well what am I supposed to do if I go and buy a stock replacement 1G alternator for this truck, they dont rebuild or sale 1G alternators at the auto parts store in anything other than 70A. Does that mean installing this replacement alternator that its going to cause damage to the truck? I dont see how a manufacture to rebuild these alternators and boost the amperage up if it will cause damage to the vehicles cause that makes them liable then.
Originally Posted by JimsRebel
I actually like the 1G ALT, but I am not a fan of the 2G due to the output power connector melt down issues. It is a simple basic easy to work on design. If I had a 1G I would have just left it as is.
But, as is, in my case meant, ... with the lights on, heater fan on high and the brakes held on at a stop light you could hear the heater fan slow down. I really didn't care as the light would turn green soon and all would be fine again. I only have stock loads, no extra stuff.
I think the only point that still needs to be stressed is that in the above low current output at idle... it would be exactly the same with a 55, 60, 65 or 70 version of a 1G ALT or even 100 amp 1G ALT super rebuild. Think of it as the same ALT, just a different salesman
Good luck with what ever you decide.
Jim
Well the one I found is a 100A 1G alternator that is rated at 65A at idle speeds. I know what you are talking about the fan motor slowing down when you stop, I have the same thing but thats not a problem to me. I just wanted to have more than a 55A alternator which is what these were on these trucks after I add on a couple spotlights. Wont need it, I know that because I will pull less than 25A with the two headlights on high and the two spotlights turned on. Even then that is figuring amps based off 111w, I got a response and one of the vendors told me the actual bench test of one of the 111w 9" LED spotlight actually pulled 90w and 7.5A @ 12v and 3.8 @ 24v. I dont really care what the wattage is long as its over 5,000 Lumens a pop.
I think I would be fine as is without the upgrade, but I am just not understanding I guess why a higher amp alternator will burn up your ammeter and ammeter wiring. Comes back to my mercury that has a ammeter from the factory that is marked to 65A but its a 75A alternator. It also comes back to what do all the people do that buy a replacement alternator for their truck and its a 70A alternator as no replacement alternator from a local parts store is rated at anything other than 70A.
If a 70A alternator wont cause any problems but a 100A will well then I will just get a 70A one then.
Sorry, I didn't make myself clear. I didn't mean you were physically taking those circuits out that have the yellow X's on them. But, by running the red (and yellow but it was meant to be red) wire from the alternator to the solenoid you are effectively or electrically taking them out. That's because your wire is much bigger than the fusible link, so the fusible link will be bypassed when charging the battery - so there will be no protection in the battery charging circuit. Therefore you need a fuse in your #8 wire or you risk causing problems. Ford thought a fusible link was needed in the 80's, and went to a Mega-fuse in the 90's, so you need something.
And since your wire goes from the solenoid to the alternator, and then the Y/W D wire goes from there to the yellow wire headed to the cab, there will be nothing flowing through the little shunt. In other words, the shunt has been electrically taken out of the picture - and you won't melt it nor damage the ammeter.
In other words, any change in the system has to be thought through. And, dare I say it? Yes, I will. When you go to the salvage to get the mega-fuse get the alternator that's tied to it.
Ok, well now will I have the same problem if I go to the autoparts store and buy a 70A 1G alternator?
If I do then I dont believe this will be a problem even without the 8Ga wire because you cant buy a reman 1G alternator from any auto parts chain for anything other than 70A. They all reman and build them as 70A alternators, I dont believe they would build an alternator to have an amperage that would cause damage to a vehicle they are mounted on.
That is what I keep coming back to, cause 70A would require a factory 14Ga fusible link and not all trucks came with that for my year, but yet you cant get a 40A or 60A alternator just a 70A if you walk into a parts store and ask for a replacement alternator for your year/make/model.
The thing it comes back to is if I say **** it and dont even do an alternator upgrade and just run the spotlights on the old Alternator if it finally bites the dust and I go and get a replacement from Advance, all I can get is a 70A, is that going to **** my truck up if I go and buy that. If so then maybe I need to gut all the factory wiring and related to the charging system including the ammeter and upgrade it to 14Ga including the shunt. But then that would put the Ammeter as the weak link.
But then it comes back to my '78. I am sure it has very simmilar setup to the ammeter on my '82 F150, but yet my Mercury`s ammeter only reads up to 65A + or -. The alternator is a 75A alternator and Ive had the car for 10 years now and the ammeter still works. Unless its one of those things where going with a 70A alternator over the stock 40/50A alternator is fine but going to a 100A is not well then I think I will go with the 70A then as that would still be an upgrade.
Any 1G alternator you buy from the parts store will be a wimp. It won't put out much at idle and will have to be spinning fast to hit its max. So regardless of rating it isn't going to throw enough to melt the wires - unless you have a fault, which is when the fuse/fusible link comes into play. But if you buy a 1G on steroids or a 3G you could have problems - but only if you put the load in or powered through the cab. A 3G puts out enough current even at idle to fry old cab wiring under heavy load.
However, if you put your load on the solenoid post and run a heavy "charge cable" with fuse from the alternator to the solenoid you won't be loading the old wiring. So you won't have any problems - as long as you fuse it and run the heavy load off of new wiring sized to carry it.
Any 1G alternator you buy from the parts store will be a wimp. It won't put out much at idle and will have to be spinning fast to hit its max. So regardless of rating it isn't going to throw enough to melt the wires - unless you have a fault, which is when the fuse/fusible link comes into play. But if you buy a 1G on steroids or a 3G you could have problems - but only if you put the load in or powered through the cab. A 3G puts out enough current even at idle to fry old cab wiring under heavy load.
However, if you put your load on the solenoid post and run a heavy "charge cable" with fuse from the alternator to the solenoid you won't be loading the old wiring. So you won't have any problems - as long as you fuse it and run the heavy load off of new wiring sized to carry it.
But effectively the ammeter will be dead. I sent a email to that company I linked and asked them how does that external regulator simulator with the 1G to 3G work at protecting the wiring that was never ment to handle that kind of amperage and still keep your ammeter working.
If its that regulator box then I think its worth the $25 to buy that kit cause it claims to keep shunt style ammeters working with a 3G alternator. Not that I think I need a 3G alternator. I think even a 70A 1G alternator would be enough for me.
Hell honestly I should really give my alternator a good once over to see what amperage it is it might be a 70A already but I never replaced it but it might have been when the engine was pulled in the '90s for a rebuild.
The other thing is I also need to test out the amperage of those lights that I ordered when they come in. Buddy at work has a blade fuse tester that plugs inplace of a blade fuse and it reads the amperage on the circuit. If its the same as what that guy from China said that they were really only 90W vs 111W as they are marketed by well then that is even better long as the lumens are still up there.
But hell I really dont think I need to upgrade the alternator, I am just thinking maybe it would be a good thing to do for more cushion between what amperage I am consuming and the peak.
Going off the math I did today with my highbeams on and with two of those 9" Aux spotlights on at the same time at its 24.781A @ 13.8V. I think I said I wanted to keep the total under 25A. Only thing I been trying to do is figure out how many amps the T10 wedge LED bulbs and the Ba9s socket base LED bulbs I put for the interior illumination is pulling. I want to get a complete whole picture of how many amps total every bulb is pulling. I think the amps I saved with all LED`s on the interior and with conventional bulbs on the exterior, I think I should be around 28A @ 13.8V total.
Then I might not even keep these 9" spotlights I might not like them when they come in and if thats the case then I will sell them for $50 a piece, $100 a pair or $200 for all four of them then use the money and buy smaller LED spotlights that are priced higher.
Rough estimate is below, I had to omit some of the figures as I could not find a wattage spec (bulbs omitted would be two license plate lights as I dont know what bulbs they are, they are the self grounding press into the bumper style ones, and my radio bulb, its a mini wedge LED but cant find any wattage rating for that one smd bulb).
For night time driving without the spotlights on is a total of 11.609A @ 13.8v, this is low beam headlights turned on without blinkers or brake lights activated.
For night time driving with either braking or turnsignals is a total of 17.129A @ 13.8v.
Now for night time driving with LED Spotlights on is a total of 28.42A @ 13.8v, this is with high beam headlights on, no blinkers or brake lights activated.
With every light on possible including hazzards (all four 1157 bulbs going to full output) its a total of 33.94A @ 13.8v.
I am thinking its safe to say I could put the spotlights on and never have to upgrade the alternator. I could even turn my headlights off and just use the spotlights for road driving and that would put me at 19.725A @ 13.8v. Friend at work said that with two spotlights rated at 9,200-9,300 lumens a piece, I could turn my headlights off and use just the spotlights even for off road use. He has a pair of those small square four LED lights that only put out 1,200 - 1,300 lumens and he said they are bright as hell off road. Cant wait to see how bright these spotlights are at 9,200-9,300 lumens.
A little update, I want to let everyone know that I found a product that might be too good to be true but they got a positive review but I asked them some questions in an email, I will be heading back to work so cant call them up but I will do a full review of the product though. The link to it is below, I linked it earlier in this topic as well.
This is a kit that comes with a regulator and a harness adapter for the most part that allows you to convert any 1G alternator to a 3G alternator, it also allows you to retain your factory charge light or shunt style ammeters. If you have a direct reading style ammeter it wont work unless you bridge the ammeter.
The questions I asked was exactly how does this work, and the other question was that if I installed a 150A alternator how does it allow the higher amperage output of a 3G 150A alternator to operate the ammeter safely without causing damage to it.
If I like the response I get I will fork over the $25 for it and go ahead and do a 3G conversion on my truck and create a review of this product with to allow others to know if its worth it or not. This if it is true will allow the use of a 3G alternator without chopping the harness all up just simply plug their regulator in and make the connections between your orignal alternator harness to the one they supply and you are done.
Just have to deside now do I want a 150A 3G or 200A 3G alternator.
Oh a update on the lighting, I bought and paid for them yesterday at this time but the guy still hasnt collected the money from paypal so I will give him till Friday if its still uncollected I will cancle the payment get my money back and send him a message canceling the order since he had a few days and couldnt be bothered with fulfilling the said order.
Didn't I tell you about the PA Performance "fake regulator" like two pages ago???
Do what you will.
I don't buy from companies that take advantage of the ignorant.
Didn't I tell you about the PA Performance "fake regulator" like two pages ago???
Do what you will.
I don't buy from companies that take advantage of the ignorant.
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Slideshow: Called the Fortress, the 850-horsepower pickup combines Raptor underpinnings with military-inspired features, survival equipment, and a starting price of $285,000.
