Needs Help on rebuild Heads
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
From: Sunny Florida
Needs Help on rebuild Heads
Hi all,
I am rebuilding my engine, originally a 360 and I wanted to turn it into a 390. I bought a crank from Surviuval Motorsport. And I bought a set of reconditioned heads 390 gt from 1968. Everything was ok until I bring all the part to a machine shop. Then the machine shop told me I should resurface the heads.
Then they realize some weird thing on the heads.
Here is what the machine shop said:
October 6
"The heads, wow, those heads. In order to be able to run the spring locators that we discussed, without a bunch of shims to get the pressure where it needs to be for that cam, we are installing a different set of taller valve springs. I‘ll swap you even for the ones you had, if that’s OK with you."
October 8
"We found yet another issue with these heads. They installed 1 intake seat, left a gap beneath it, and it leaks vacuum. We don't know if it will leak water without having it pressure tested. We will have to cut it out and put another one in. I don't know if it's possible due to the area next to the spark plug hole, and the fact that the seat they put in is already too big. There's no meat there to support the seat. See pics..."
So here are the pics:
So far I bought those heads for $640, then the machine shop charge me like $520 to redo the valve job and this is how they discover those problem...
So yes so far I have close to $1200 in those and right now I really don't know if I should use them...
Can someone bring me some light, I am so confuse right now, I don't know if the machine shop is trying to take advantage of me or if they are correct.
Any help will be much appreciated.
I am rebuilding my engine, originally a 360 and I wanted to turn it into a 390. I bought a crank from Surviuval Motorsport. And I bought a set of reconditioned heads 390 gt from 1968. Everything was ok until I bring all the part to a machine shop. Then the machine shop told me I should resurface the heads.
Then they realize some weird thing on the heads.
Here is what the machine shop said:
October 6
"The heads, wow, those heads. In order to be able to run the spring locators that we discussed, without a bunch of shims to get the pressure where it needs to be for that cam, we are installing a different set of taller valve springs. I‘ll swap you even for the ones you had, if that’s OK with you."
October 8
"We found yet another issue with these heads. They installed 1 intake seat, left a gap beneath it, and it leaks vacuum. We don't know if it will leak water without having it pressure tested. We will have to cut it out and put another one in. I don't know if it's possible due to the area next to the spark plug hole, and the fact that the seat they put in is already too big. There's no meat there to support the seat. See pics..."
So here are the pics:
So far I bought those heads for $640, then the machine shop charge me like $520 to redo the valve job and this is how they discover those problem...
So yes so far I have close to $1200 in those and right now I really don't know if I should use them...
Can someone bring me some light, I am so confuse right now, I don't know if the machine shop is trying to take advantage of me or if they are correct.
Any help will be much appreciated.
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,997
Likes: 237
From: NE Ohio
I agree with Mark A.
I wouldn't pay the machine shop. They should have looked the heads over before starting and knew if they were machinable or not.
Either they knocked that chunk off or they are that bad to not have seen it before starting the work.
I wouldn't pay the machine shop. They should have looked the heads over before starting and knew if they were machinable or not.
Either they knocked that chunk off or they are that bad to not have seen it before starting the work.
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
From: Sunny Florida
Thanks guys ,
I agree with you all.
Here is how the heads looks when I bought them:
I know for sure the guy from who I bought them is still selling the same FE heads on Ebay, he sold 3 or 4 set just in September, I could imagine since May it could be a dozen of set of heads, so people are buying those!.... I hope they are not all like that!!!!
I guess I am going to wait to see what the machine shop have to say, and I will act in function.
thanks for the help guys
I agree with you all.
Here is how the heads looks when I bought them:
I know for sure the guy from who I bought them is still selling the same FE heads on Ebay, he sold 3 or 4 set just in September, I could imagine since May it could be a dozen of set of heads, so people are buying those!.... I hope they are not all like that!!!!
I guess I am going to wait to see what the machine shop have to say, and I will act in function.
thanks for the help guys
FTE Legend
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 53,968
Likes: 2,390
From: NY and VA
1. Heads no good.
2. Intake and exhaust valves way to close.
3. Check ebay buyer protection plan.
4. get another machine shop.
2. Intake and exhaust valves way to close.
3. Check ebay buyer protection plan.
4. get another machine shop.
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Fleet Owner
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 20,678
Likes: 82
From: NorCal
By the pic above, it appears that the lil hunk of head was already missing before the machine shop started work on them.
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Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
From: Sunny Florida
HI guys,
I thought I will give you some update on those heads.
I wrote an email today to the machine shop:
Me:
"I keep thinking about the cylinder heads, and the more I think about it
the more I think I shouldn't be charge for anything.
I came to your shop because you are a professional and I trust you for your expertise.
Then you show me some issues on those heads, but since I am not a mechanic
and you are the professional I agree to do what it takes to fix the problem.
Then you found another problem, this time more critical!
I believe you should have had inspected them
and made sure they were in good condition to work on.
Once the valve was removed you could see the gap under the seat.
I don't believe I should have to pay $520 (what you charge me for the work on the heads)
or even half of that and not have a set of working heads!
I know you are not fully responsible, however I hired you for your expertise.
I am in Boynton Beach area and I don't have time to drive to your shop so I hope we can reach a fair agreement for both of us.
These are the options I see:
1) continue working the heads you have. Then you pay for the pressure test and if they work, I will pay you the $520. If I need another set of heads, we need to address your $520 charge and my lack of having a set of working heads.
2) How much will you charge to rebuild my old set?
3) How much will you charge for the rebuilt set you have?
If you see any other options, please let me know.
Regards,
"
This is what he respond:
"Our expert advice from the beginning was to send them back, but you chose to go ahead and do the work. I can work with you a little bit on the price, but we are not responsible for customer supplied parts"
That was the cherry on cake, So if you are not responsible about part, why did you accept to even start to work on those, this is not professional at all! And also when I told them to go ahead and do the work it was for something different, something they could fix!.. Then they realize something wrong, It is like starting to do all kind of work on the block and then realize there is a crack, ****t!!!we should have had magna-flux the block before....Too late.....
So I was a bit pissed, I tried to be nice and ask him how much it will cost me in the end to get a proper set of heads but he didn't understand it this way!
Here was my answer to that:
"I am done!
Finish the work on my block, stop everything else.
Your expert told me it was fixable and it was a different problem, then you discover there is no meat under the seat, I still think you should have seen it.
I will come as soon as the block is ready to pick up everything.
Laurent"
What was his answer:
"OK"
Clearly he doesn't show any respect for the customer.
So now I am looking to see what I am going to get in the end.
I thought I will give you some update on those heads.
I wrote an email today to the machine shop:
Me:
"I keep thinking about the cylinder heads, and the more I think about it
the more I think I shouldn't be charge for anything.
I came to your shop because you are a professional and I trust you for your expertise.
Then you show me some issues on those heads, but since I am not a mechanic
and you are the professional I agree to do what it takes to fix the problem.
Then you found another problem, this time more critical!
I believe you should have had inspected them
and made sure they were in good condition to work on.
Once the valve was removed you could see the gap under the seat.
I don't believe I should have to pay $520 (what you charge me for the work on the heads)
or even half of that and not have a set of working heads!
I know you are not fully responsible, however I hired you for your expertise.
I am in Boynton Beach area and I don't have time to drive to your shop so I hope we can reach a fair agreement for both of us.
These are the options I see:
1) continue working the heads you have. Then you pay for the pressure test and if they work, I will pay you the $520. If I need another set of heads, we need to address your $520 charge and my lack of having a set of working heads.
2) How much will you charge to rebuild my old set?
3) How much will you charge for the rebuilt set you have?
If you see any other options, please let me know.
Regards,
"
This is what he respond:
"Our expert advice from the beginning was to send them back, but you chose to go ahead and do the work. I can work with you a little bit on the price, but we are not responsible for customer supplied parts"
That was the cherry on cake, So if you are not responsible about part, why did you accept to even start to work on those, this is not professional at all! And also when I told them to go ahead and do the work it was for something different, something they could fix!.. Then they realize something wrong, It is like starting to do all kind of work on the block and then realize there is a crack, ****t!!!we should have had magna-flux the block before....Too late.....
So I was a bit pissed, I tried to be nice and ask him how much it will cost me in the end to get a proper set of heads but he didn't understand it this way!
Here was my answer to that:
"I am done!
Finish the work on my block, stop everything else.
Your expert told me it was fixable and it was a different problem, then you discover there is no meat under the seat, I still think you should have seen it.
I will come as soon as the block is ready to pick up everything.
Laurent"
What was his answer:
"OK"
Clearly he doesn't show any respect for the customer.
So now I am looking to see what I am going to get in the end.
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,217
Likes: 506
From: Pa.
Good on you Laurent for sticking up for your self .. It seems ,sadly, that gone are the days where a shop's reputation is the most important thing .. Even where I live in rural Pa. where you'd think a man's reputation would be important the almighty $ seems to rule above all .. Don't get me wrong I have met some good craftsman but they are few and far between these days .. I wish you the best Laurent
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
From: Sunny Florida
Thanks John, i Appreciate that, there is still some hope.
Now I have to start all over again?.. That's sucks, I hope what they done on the block was done correctly, now I am starting to imagine the worst scenario....
it reminds me brother my brother in law, he bought a Packard, he live in Michigan, he had to go thru 3 different machine shop, it cost him a fortune, and since it was a 8 cylinder in line, if I remember correctly, the price for everything went higher! I think he ended up paying like $10.000 for the engine. The third shop had to do everything, included fixing the bad work from the 2 previous machine shop. Yep that suck.
But keep it coming I would like for many people to learn about my experience.
And after I will get all my parts back, i might or might not do some advertisment for his shop. we'll see how it ends....
I guess they are that bad!
Now I have to start all over again?.. That's sucks, I hope what they done on the block was done correctly, now I am starting to imagine the worst scenario....
it reminds me brother my brother in law, he bought a Packard, he live in Michigan, he had to go thru 3 different machine shop, it cost him a fortune, and since it was a 8 cylinder in line, if I remember correctly, the price for everything went higher! I think he ended up paying like $10.000 for the engine. The third shop had to do everything, included fixing the bad work from the 2 previous machine shop. Yep that suck.
But keep it coming I would like for many people to learn about my experience.
And after I will get all my parts back, i might or might not do some advertisment for his shop. we'll see how it ends....
dustyroad
Either they knocked that chunk off or they are that bad to not have seen it before starting the work.
Either they knocked that chunk off or they are that bad to not have seen it before starting the work.
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 5,217
Likes: 506
From: Pa.
At the end of the day remain true to the project and keep up the good work you've been doing and you'll end up with a really nice truck with that FE torque and power .. remember you have friends here who have been there and will will give you moral support every step of the way ..
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,806
Likes: 8
From: Langley, BC
My mother, the CFO of a large furniture company and my uncle, the owner of a large consumer electronics manufacturer and distributor always agreed on one thing: every business makes mistakes but it is how they manage their mistakes that they should be judged upon.
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