I have to get this out.... one thing I hate more than anything is headers..... Generally I only buy the expensive ones and I still have trouble with them.... really they are all junk.

I made a mistake of buying headman headers for my 79 F150 five years back and I can tell you they are not worth the shot and powered you need to blow them up..... First they have special gaskets than you can only get from them! Yeah these stupid oval port pieces of garbage... nobody supports oval port small block for heads... did one every exist? Second: Not only do that not allow for replacement of the OE starter without dropping the passenger side header, you cannot even get a mini starter in there either!!!!!! Worse.... you have to cut off the collector flanges to get the header to clear the I-beam crossmember! These things are garbage. I should have sent them back years ago and seen what Hooker had to offer. Why the mini stater? Well the heat bleed fried stock ones!!!!

Headers should be divided and sold in the following groups:

Max performance: they give you the most horsepower and are for jokers who don't care is they have to tear apart their vehicles to service spark plugs, starters, etc.... and the companions should tell you that because you know the jerks that sell this crap test fit them in the vehicles they sell them for, and they know they are a pain in the *** to live with.

Upgrade headers: these are the headers that allow you to use you stock components and come with nice squared ports at the head flange so it is easy to her wrenched on bolts and bolts and gaskets on etc.

Last stock replacement manifolds and headers that would be essentially tube versions of stock manifolds and would connect into stock exhaust systems with minor mods.

I know some people would rather have an extra few hp.... I could care less..... More hp is gained through heads and cams then exhaust could ever imagine gaining so I want ease of access over marketing and crappo products.

 

I have never bought a set of headers. I had one truck I bought that had them but it didn't stay around long. It was a Chevy that blew up. Maybe the headers were all that was good. LOL.
I can't see putting them on stock vehicles. I use my trucks for work not racing. I just think on a basic stock rig they are a waste of money & end up as you said causing more head aches than they are worth.

 

i have only had one set of headers in all my 45 years driving. they came on a parts truck. brand new. and went to the scrap yard with what was left of the truck.

 

Tom, we maybe the only two on this forum that has never bought headers. LOL

 

Generally, if you are like me, working with the older stuff like this truck, where the manifolds rusted through, and one was cracked as the end where the stud fits in, you end up buying headers because they are the only option.

I just do not understand why the people who make them do not make them better and quality products. It would not be that hard.

Hooker headers may have fit better..... but I would rather have tubular shorties that were tube copied of the stock manifolds.... do not know why they are not offered!

 

Sorry to hear about your header and starter problems, I have had the opposite experience with my headers. Installed a set of Banks headers on my '05 V-10 EXcursion, they came with several stainless steel heat shields to protect the starter, sway bar endlink, fuel lines and such. They made a noticable improvement in performance from just off idle through the entire RPM range, no big suprise considering how restrictive the stock V-10 manifolds are. I tow a 11k lb travel trailer a lot so they have seen plenty of heat and I've never even had to re-torque any of the bolts after installation. Pretty happy with my headers, they were pricey though.

 

Banks headers are a like headers by Ed and are a premium product.... BBK headers are also usually very good as well.
The thing is it is like 2014.... cad, cnc machines etc... this stuff really should be babes###t to produce at a very high level and at the same price we buy junk for now....
Take for example the typical black painted headers they are generally purchased for trucks.... Why do they have to paint them with a coating that is 1) not high temperature? and 2) stays around just good enough to keep you from painting them with high temperature paint? Why not just paint them with high temperature paint? Maybe manufacturers feel people would have little incentive to opt for the higher dollar coated or stainless versions? Well I would say not true.

First, unless you crank over a new engine on a dyno the first time you are going to need junk headers because break in can burn off the high dollar coating of heat-scar stainless.

Really reason people run the coated headers is if you plan to run all out you need the coating to keep the temps down in the engine compartment.....

Why not offer decent painted headers?

Generally the headers I have are not all that bad, but there are some small nagging things about them that really annoy me..... So I just had to get it out and gripe.....

 

When you buy a cheap set of headers (Headman, Pacesetter, etc..) they tell you that the 'paint' is only intended to keep them from rusting in storage and transit.

 

Yeah, but damn........They look great for the first 35 seconds that the engine runs!

 

Stove black (and enjoy the acrid smoke!)

It's been said in this thread, better headers - Sanderson, Banks, Thorley, L&L all have thick flanges and some are available in stainless, plated or ceramic coated.

Basically you get what you pay for.

 

It is more the fitment and lack of communication about things like: these headers will required removal to remove the starter etc that should be said/corrected. The finish of the tubes does not make a difference.....
Even the better/more high dollar ones do not say they will fit the starter etc....

I have never had a problem with warped flanges.... it must be how I tighten them or maybe I have never had an engine run too lean or used a set of low dollar headers on a race motor where I run it at high rpm etc.....

I really think the people that make these things should be more blunt about how they will work or not work it would make things so much easier.....

I can also tell you I am more concerned about easy access of getting the bolts in the heads and the squareness of the tube at the head flange the more money I pay for a header. Hookers in the past have given me more troubles with this than these headman's on the truck....

 

I can buy shorties if that's what I want.

I can buy cast replacement manifolds for $105 a pair (delivered) on Ebay all day long.

What's special about your truck that forces you to use cheap headers that have poor access and you have to hack up to make things work?

 

I have never seen too many problems with headers, and the ones I have have been because people did not have brackets close behind them as the exhaust makes it's way under the pass. compartment...........Headers are not designed to carry most of the weight of the exhaust system.........metal fatigue happens.

 

For newer vehicles I'm sure all the shields & stuff are available. But not for the older stuff from what I have seen.
My point with headers is the cost vs fuel savings, & really also performance overall. If your building a performance engine from the bottom up which means all matched components that is different. But just to add headers, oh you can justify them, but when you put it to paper it as a rule doesn't add up to a savings or any real performance gains. But most don't use that method of figuring out things, because we live in an impulse buying society. If people used it new car & most everything sales wouldn't be half of what they are. But then I would have competition at the yard sales & flee market in buying oil, air & gas filters brand new for fifty cents ea. along with $5 lawn mowers etc.