Cam phaser noise... Gone?!!

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Jul 31, 2014 | 03:24 PM

#16

gccch

Thread Starter

Mountain Pass

Joined: Feb 2004

Posts: 243

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From: Mass.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tigauto

Could be chain jumped from tensioner, sized cam, number of things. I have mine on the floor of my shop. Cam scored and cam journal, lobes of cam pitted, tensioner collapsed chain making noise, phasers done. Mine is a 2007 5.4, going with 4.6 with 78,000 km.
Wreckers want 3,000.00 grand or more for low km 5.4. The 4.6 cost me 900.00.
To save time take the rocker cover off, remove cam cap if scored engine is done.
The cams have no bearings so if it's scored don't go any further.

Tig,

Not sure what you mean by all this. Is your cam scored due to the loss of tension on the chain? So this is damage that occurred immediately upon losing the tensioner? Phasers done means they are somehow destroyed? Any pics available?

Thanks,
Greg

Jul 31, 2014 | 06:44 PM

#17

Tigauto

Junior User

Joined: Jul 2014

Posts: 67

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Hi Greg
The tensioner I guess you would call it the plunger? let's go and collapsed.
The tensioner has a small hole for lubing the chain. But when the plunger collapse this makes for a large hole. The oil is diverted to the timing cover instead of the top end. Over time this cause ware on cam journals causing scoring. The phasers removed I left one bolt to retain the spring. If you try this be very carful the spring is under extreme pressure. The locking pins were worn, they are used at idle and oil pressure is need to push the pins off idle. Mine didn't lock because of the worn pin. The cam lobes were scored and worn again because of lack of lubricant. The damage can be done over a short period of time if lubrication is not sufficient. The heads do not have any bearing, great idea from Ford but most manufactures are going the same way. With the cams running on aluminum cast with out bearings doesn't take long of damage. Once scored the heads are trash. That's why I am going to the 4.6, cam phasers were not introduced until 2009. This way I don't have to go through this crap again. Less power but a reprogram can come close to the 5.4. I hope this information helps I will try and send you pics

Jul 31, 2014 | 08:07 PM

#18

paredneck33

Logistics Pro

Joined: Jan 2005

Posts: 3,534

Likes: 85

From: penn twp.

Has anyone tried the Livernoise cam phaser repair kit? Supposedly it give you a lock pin and reprograms the PCM to do away with the variable timing. Supposedly giving you a permanent fix. My question is does this actually hold up? And or what kind of damage results from this? It seems like to me atleast that you could do more harm then good going this route since the 5.4 are interference engines design to constantly adjust the timing resulting in better mpg's and efficiency.

Aug 2, 2014 | 12:22 PM

#19

gccch

Thread Starter

Mountain Pass

Joined: Feb 2004

Posts: 243

Likes: 13

From: Mass.

Well I have removed the driver side valve cover and timing cover. So far everything looks great. Cam lobes all look nice and smooth, timing chain, tensioners, guides are all in one piece. I guess it is the passenger side cover that will reveal my problem? I really thought I was going to see something not right. I sure hope I did not remove all of this for nothing.

The first VCT solenoid also looked perfectly fine. Screens all clear like new.

Aug 2, 2014 | 06:23 PM

#20

Tigauto

Junior User

Joined: Jul 2014

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Is your chain tight and the tensioner holding? Try rotating the engine by hand see if chain goes slack? Pull one of the cam caps see if it's scored? The passenger side is a pain in the *** but still check it. Look at all the lifter and rocker arms very closely?

Aug 2, 2014 | 08:37 PM

#21

gccch

Thread Starter

Mountain Pass

Joined: Feb 2004

Posts: 243

Likes: 13

From: Mass.

Tomorrow I will look more closely. After pulling it all apart today I was not in the mood to keep going. Went to cut wood instead. I will remove the passenger side valve cover tomorrow and also check timing chain more closely. The chain appears tight but there was some looseness or slack on the guide side on the left one. Not much slack but will check close tomorrow. It sure looks right compared to all the videos I have seen of broken guides and tensioners. I will also remove the cam caps? This is what holds the cam in position and it spins inside the cap, right? So I should remove only one at a time?

I will shoot some pics also tomorrow. Thanks for your help.
Greg

Aug 3, 2014 | 08:38 AM

#22

gccch

Thread Starter

Mountain Pass

Joined: Feb 2004

Posts: 243

Likes: 13

From: Mass.

The drivers side has some slack which you can see in the pic. I did haven noise upon cold start up which I understood could be caused by a loose tensioner until oil pressure is up. I also had rough idle recently, but also only upon cold start up.

I plan to get the passenger side cover off today but it is spitting rain so back to cutting wood.

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Aug 3, 2014 | 07:27 PM

#23

70f100longbed

Fleet Mechanic

Joined: Aug 2002

Posts: 1,901

Likes: 29

From: Raleigh USA

Some slack will be normal due to the cam trying to turn from a open valve and no oil pressure in the chain tensioner. You have the early design phasers which have the knocking noise problem. I can tell by the timing mark on the phaser. The new design have a L and a R for the timing marks. Get a zip tie and fish it between the chain and guides and tighten it on the chain. That will let you take the tensioner off without the chain jumping time. Look for a blown out gasket or metal in the tensioner. Metal is not good and means something has gone through the bearings. A blown seal lets oil pressure to bleed off and can affect phaser operation.