Replacing Frame Rivets
Logistics Pro
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,684
Likes: 79
From: Northville, MI
You are right Ross which is why I used self locking nuts with nylon locking which minimizes galling.
Here in road salt country I am very concerned about corrosion. This truck came from Minnesota and has lots of rust.
Here in road salt country I am very concerned about corrosion. This truck came from Minnesota and has lots of rust.
Tuned
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 462
Likes: 5
From: Kalamazoo, MI
So something like this? 1/2"-13 x 2" ASTM A325 Galvanized FQI Structural Bolt w/Nut | Fastenal
It's only about $0.25 more per bolt as compared to Grade 8
It's only about $0.25 more per bolt as compared to Grade 8
Laughing Gas
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,001
Likes: 20
From: West Virginia
You guys are overthinking this. Grade 8 is fine, Grade five is fine. You can even use plain non coated bolts and throw a coat of paint over them.
A325 bolts are typically found in bridges and such, not in vehicles. Frame bolts see more tensile load than anything, tensile strength of the grade 5 and 8's is far superior to the actual surrounding frame material. That being said you are more likely to "tear" or deform the frame steel around the bolt than break the bolt.
Rivet materials are typically softer than grade 8's and grade 5's, the only difference is the interference fit. This has been debated to death in multiple threads. As far as rivets vs bolts go think about it like this, all new bridges are designed using bolts in tension and not rivets..............
A325 bolts are typically found in bridges and such, not in vehicles. Frame bolts see more tensile load than anything, tensile strength of the grade 5 and 8's is far superior to the actual surrounding frame material. That being said you are more likely to "tear" or deform the frame steel around the bolt than break the bolt.
Rivet materials are typically softer than grade 8's and grade 5's, the only difference is the interference fit. This has been debated to death in multiple threads. As far as rivets vs bolts go think about it like this, all new bridges are designed using bolts in tension and not rivets..............
Tuned
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 353
Likes: 0
Rivits aren't that hard if you think it through. Adjustable buck rods (like a spreader bar) can be made for most of the locations on a frame.
For crossmembers a buck under the frame with the trucks weight is sufficient.
We just riveted 3/8 and 7/16" rivets on a 55 C900 and it want too difficult. 5/16" on an half ton would be easier Once you heat up the rivet to bright red it squishes with minimal effort with a impact hammer.
For crossmembers a buck under the frame with the trucks weight is sufficient.
We just riveted 3/8 and 7/16" rivets on a 55 C900 and it want too difficult. 5/16" on an half ton would be easier Once you heat up the rivet to bright red it squishes with minimal effort with a impact hammer.
I'll have the Roast Duck
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 9,622
Likes: 108
From: Northshore, MN
Nuts and bolts have better pulling 'resistance' (harder to break), rivets have better sideways 'resistance'. So if the bolts are horizontal, like leafspring brackets for instance, the up and down bouncing of the truck on the road will keep pushing into the sides of the bolt where it goes through the frame and bracket.... this is where you do not want threads, but a solid shank should be fine. Rivets will resist this wear the best. However, all the bolt needs to be, is stronger material than the frame itself, cuz then it'll be the frame holes that will wallow. Is a grade 5 or 8 bolt stronger than the frame material? Probably yes. Is a rivet the tightest bond in all directions, reducing lateral movement? Yes. Does it matter on a half ton pickup? Probably not, but on a big truck carrying tons of something, it probably does.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,001
Likes: 20
From: West Virginia
Nuts and bolts have better pulling 'resistance' (harder to break), rivets have better sideways 'resistance'. So if the bolts are horizontal, like leafspring brackets for instance, the up and down bouncing of the truck on the road will keep pushing into the sides of the bolt where it goes through the frame and bracket.... this is where you do not want threads, but a solid shank should be fine. Rivets will resist this wear the best. However, all the bolt needs to be, is stronger material than the frame itself, cuz then it'll be the frame holes that will wallow. Is a grade 5 or 8 bolt stronger than the frame material? Probably yes. Is a rivet the tightest bond in all directions, reducing lateral movement? Yes. Does it matter on a half ton pickup? Probably not, but on a big truck carrying tons of something, it probably does.
Those bolts/rivets should not experience shear as you described. A proper connection transfers the force between the hanger and frame through friction of the two mating surfaces. The friction is applied by the proper tension placed on the bolt.
When the bolt or rivet is not tight enough then you experience a shear load on the bolt/rivet and either the bolt or frame fails.
I'll have the Roast Duck
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 9,622
Likes: 108
From: Northshore, MN
The example you just stated using the hangers is a common misconception people have.
Those bolts/rivets should not experience shear as you described. A proper connection transfers the force between the hanger and frame through friction of the two mating surfaces. The friction is applied by the proper tension placed on the bolt.
When the bolt or rivet is not tight enough then you experience a shear load on the bolt/rivet and either the bolt or frame fails.
Those bolts/rivets should not experience shear as you described. A proper connection transfers the force between the hanger and frame through friction of the two mating surfaces. The friction is applied by the proper tension placed on the bolt.
When the bolt or rivet is not tight enough then you experience a shear load on the bolt/rivet and either the bolt or frame fails.
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