Replacing Frame Rivets
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Junior User
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: Northern Los Angeles, CA
Replacing Frame Rivets
Hey all - has anyone replaced the frame rivets on their truck? There is an awful lot of frame flex on my F-5, leading me to suspect some of the rivets have loosened up over the years. I saw Ford has a TSB for their more modern trucks (TSB 97-4-7) stating to replace rivets with equivalent diameter Grade 5 hex-head bolts.
Any experience/thoughts/feedback?
Any experience/thoughts/feedback?
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,283
Likes: 1,046
From: NM
They normally don't need to be replaced unless they have to be removed for some reason. The frame is supposed to flex, and rivets let it do that. Replacement with bolts is fine, just make sure they are real, Grade 5 or Grade 8 bolts. I wouldn't trust chinese stuff from Lowe's or Home Depot.
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Junior User
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From: Northern Los Angeles, CA
Amen. Of course, they usually save me from myself since they don't carry Grade 8 over 3/4"...
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 3,337
Likes: 165
From: Harpswell Maine
Replacing rivets is not that difficult. I did over 100 new rivets in another vehicle. The keys/basic process:
1. Correct sized/ shaped holes (may need to weld up and redrill holes)
2. Cutoff rivets to correct length
3. Torch rivet end to red hot
4. Helper with a bucking bar
5. Air impact gun with a proper sized rivet head bit. ( Mine came from Big Flats Rivets)
6. It is done about as quick as you can release the trigger on the air impact gun.
1. Correct sized/ shaped holes (may need to weld up and redrill holes)
2. Cutoff rivets to correct length
3. Torch rivet end to red hot
4. Helper with a bucking bar
5. Air impact gun with a proper sized rivet head bit. ( Mine came from Big Flats Rivets)
6. It is done about as quick as you can release the trigger on the air impact gun.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,001
Likes: 20
From: West Virginia
I replaced all of mine with Grade 8 bolts. I drilled all my rivet holes out to the next size bolt to ensure I had a good snug fit on them.
Somewhere I think I have a list of what all it takes....... set me back a couple hundred bucks for bolts washers and nylocks.
Somewhere I think I have a list of what all it takes....... set me back a couple hundred bucks for bolts washers and nylocks.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,283
Likes: 1,046
From: NM
Here is a good source of structural-grade nuts/bolts.
Nucor Fastener | Our Products | Products | Structural Nuts
Good reading here:
http://www.fastenal.com/content/feds...al%20Bolts.pdf
Nucor Fastener | Our Products | Products | Structural Nuts
Good reading here:
http://www.fastenal.com/content/feds...al%20Bolts.pdf
Marmon-Herrington Man
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 11,984
Likes: 444
From: Central Illinois
I redid several on my current project frame. I got supplies and tools from Big Flats, and did them alone using a 1/2" thick bucking plate clamped holding the preformed heads. As said you need to heat the rivet glowing red, but to me heating the end too fast can limit the swelling of the shaft that is needed to squeeze the rivet to fully fill its hole. The newly formed rivet heads are not what provide a secure hold, it's the expansion of the shafts into their holes that do the job. Anybody that's removed frame rivets knows that simply grinding off the heads doesn't allow them to be driven out. Stu
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Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Sweden (Fagersta)
I'm subscribing science I also need a couple of rivets replaced at the crossmember at the rear footstep support
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Logistics Pro
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,684
Likes: 79
From: Northville, MI
Hey all - has anyone replaced the frame rivets on their truck? There is an awful lot of frame flex on my F-5, leading me to suspect some of the rivets have loosened up over the years. I saw Ford has a TSB for their more modern trucks (TSB 97-4-7) stating to replace rivets with equivalent diameter Grade 5 hex-head bolts.
Any experience/thoughts/feedback?
Any experience/thoughts/feedback?
I agree with Ross. Rivets are generally stronger than bolts in this application. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivet. Rivets provide optimal shear strength.
If you have a loose rivet it will have "rust dust" around the head (see second picture). I wouldn't replace them if you don't see this evidence.
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 431
Likes: 0
From: Edenwold Saskatchewan
A friend of mine restores model t's and rather than replaceing the rivits he has a couple tools for tightening them.I believe he heats them up red hot and with the "rivet " punchs he has pounds them tight.After they cool they should shrink and tighten more locking them.
Tuned
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 462
Likes: 5
From: Kalamazoo, MI
So, in replacing rivets with bolts, what line up should one use? I'm bolting rear spring perches and was thinking; Bolt, washer, spring hanger, frame, washer, lock washer, double nut. The bolt i figured on getting would be partially threaded, the least threads in the hole, the stronger (my thinking)
Concerns? Ideas? Recommendations?
Concerns? Ideas? Recommendations?
Logistics Pro
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,684
Likes: 79
From: Northville, MI
So, in replacing rivets with bolts, what line up should one use? I'm bolting rear spring perches and was thinking; Bolt, washer, spring hanger, frame, washer, lock washer, double nut. The bolt i figured on getting would be partially threaded, the least threads in the hole, the stronger (my thinking)
Concerns? Ideas? Recommendations?
Concerns? Ideas? Recommendations?
Tuned
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 303
Likes: 28
From: Gladwin, MI
The only exception I take to this is the use of full threaded bolts. You want to utilize a bolt with the proper diameter shoulder for the hole and material thickness that it is installed in. For example on a 1/2" bolt the cross sectional area of a fine thread is only .438 (7/16) for a coarse thread bolt it's only .406 vs the 1/2" shank diameter.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 27,283
Likes: 1,046
From: NM
Stainless steels aren't as good as the structural alloys. There are special grades of A325 alloy bolts that are weather resistant if that's a concern. Most A325 structural bolts are a good 50% higher tensile strength than stainless. SS bolts with SS nuts are likely to gall.
Re: full-threaded bolts; see the Fastenal link above about the importance of the unthreaded part of the bolt being long enough to go thru both pieces being bolted.
Re: full-threaded bolts; see the Fastenal link above about the importance of the unthreaded part of the bolt being long enough to go thru both pieces being bolted.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,684
Likes: 79
From: Northville, MI
The only exception I take to this is the use of full threaded bolts. You want to utilize a bolt with the proper diameter shoulder for the hole and material thickness that it is installed in. For example on a 1/2" bolt the cross sectional area of a fine thread is only .438 (7/16) for a coarse thread bolt it's only .406 vs the 1/2" shank diameter.