I will have to take a look at the RPM one and compare the carb mounting heigth between the two. While I know I could just simply go with an aftermarket air filter to clear the hood I much rather stick with the factory one. Cause if I start doing this then I am getting more and more away from a mild build over stock to a all out performance engine. If I could make 300 - 350 hp with the following components then I be very happy with the build then. Hell even 200 - 250 HP would be a improvement over the oem 145HP.

So far my parts list for upgrades is as follows.

1) Davis Unified Ignition Ford Duraspark Distributor. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/du...view/make/ford

2) ACCEL OE Replacement Ford Dura-Spark Racing Coil. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ac...view/make/ford (Looked at the MSD Blaster II with the OEM horseshoe hook up but it like the other performance coils require the use of a resistor if being used with a stock DuraSpark II system. Whats the point in having the OEM hook up if you have to cut it to splice in a resistor.)

3) Holley 4160 replacement 4bbl carb 600 cfm. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-0-80452/overview/

4) Edelbrock Performer RPM cylinder heads 60cc chamber. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-60229/overview/ (I had the plain Performer picked out cause for some reason Edelbrocks website was showing identical flow rates for the Performer and the Performer RPM head but now they are showing the performer RPM heads have better flow at .500 lift which is what the cams I am looking at is using.)

5) Edelbrock Performer RPM intake manifold. (It appears that between the Performer and the Performer RPM manifolds the carb mounting pad heigth is only 1/4" difference. Given the Performer is including the heigth of the 1" EGR spacer but I believe I can use the RPM intake with no problem as its only a 1/4" taller than the Performer with the EGR plate. I just dont know if it would clear my hood though with the stock aircleaner housing. I will have to do some measurements on car to verify this. If not then it looks like I am locked into the replacement performer manifold.)

6) Hooker Super Comp headers 1 5/8" primary tube and 3" collector. Planned on cutting the flange off and welding a ball flange collector on it from flowmaster. I also planned on modifying the headers by welding a bolt to cylinder #1 or # 1 and 2 to attack a fabricated heat shield for the hot air emission hook up on the oem aircleaner. I know this isnt needed but if I am going to do this, I have specifics of what I want to do and this is one of the things that will not change, if it has to then I will just go back OEM stock then cause this is a daily driver and I dont want to be cutting the car up making modifications just to get more power. I already have one streetrod and its a pain in the *** with diagonistics when theres a problem due to all the modifications. Plus it would also kill my goal of building the engine to appear factory stock to trick un suspecting people that dont know a thing about cars of the late 70`s.

 

Why spend $265 on an aftermarket distributor that performs no better than the factory one ? That's wasted $$$$$ there. If you want a fresh distributor, go buy a fresh reman unit from the parts house. This is the route I chose for my 331 in my 77 Comet. The MSD coil I used needed no resistor spliced into the wiring. I did not use the horseshoe connection though but hard wired it with ring terminals. And I fail to understand the need to fabricate a hot air box for the aircleaner to keep the engine "stock looking" when you're adding headers to it. You can have both function and reliability with a high performance, dressed up engine. Email me at baddad457@bellsouth.net and I'll show you what that can look like.

 

I think he's tryin to keep it "dulled down" for smog/emissions check stations I don't think he prefers to do it that way or at least I wouldn't think so?

 

From what I read on the dist, it has upgrades to it that improves it over stock. I figure since I would be getting a new dist I would go with a performanced based one that plugs and plays with the Dura Spark II module.

As far as the looks goes, theres a few reasons why I am wanting to go back stock looking. One of the big reasons is this is a daily driver and I see no need in having show car features on the engine. One of the other reasons is that I can proceed to tell people I know that the car is stock. Such as Donny and the others that stop by at work that have hopped up show vehicles. They have beating cams in their engines but they dont make much over 300 hp. If I can get the car to look stock but put out more than they are then that would be great in my book. Yet another reason is the inspection station. The guy I used to work for I dont know if hes going to be **** about inspections or not. He didnt use to be but im hearing hes starting to be and if I can have it looking stock I can just convince him that it is stock and nothing is missing when in fact some stuff is.

The heat shield, they refer to it as an emission item but technically it doesnt do anything when it comes to emissions besides helping the engine to warm up faster if its cold outside. Personally I like to maintain this feature as it helps the engine warm up faster when its cold outside and while some say that its Texas it doesnt get that cold, I dont know how many days so far this year that ive had to deal with longer than usual warm ups. I hate to see how long it would take with out the setup pulling heated air around the exhaust into the carb. I mean I am willingly giving up the exhaust cross over through the heads and intake so I wont have the heat rising up to warm up the carb so I want to keep the heat shield feature.

As far as the headers goes, ford sold some vehicles from the factory with headers and I am confident I can pull off to majority of people that I personally know the lie that the car came with headers from the factory part of the sport package.

 

1: Ford never sold any vehicle with full length headers. The only ones that did have anything close to it were shortys (at best). So unless the inspector is a complete idiot, you're not going to fool him. Secondly, if you do happen to mention that line about the car coming with headers, you're really going to look the fool when someone who knows better, calls you on that. It's a well known fact that nothing Ford put out in the mid 70's to early 80's had anything of the sort. Even the so called headers the 83-85 Stangs had were far short of being an actual "header". Sure they were steel tubed, but the flange ends were so severly pinched to clear the 3/8" headed bolts in most tubes that the whole effert was largely wasted................. 2: the length of warm up time with the hot air vs no hot air is a few seconds at best. Build the engine with the components I suggested and there will be no warmup time needed............................. 3: the so called "improvements" that distributor offers (once again) will be un-noticeable in operation. The stock Ford Duraspark distributor is almost impossible to beat as is.(especially for what you're doing) I had a friend who, like you, was lured into spending $400+ on a complete MSD system a few years ago to replace what came with his 89 GT Stang. I warned him the folly of spending that $400+ but he went ahead and did it anyway. I later met him after he'd done so and asked if he felt $400+ in improvement, he sheepishly looked at me and replied "No". But, hey, it's your money................................Just don't say you weren't warned.

 

1) Ok, maybe its not noticeable but what am I going to do with the factory aircleaner with the huge hole in the bottom of the snorkle that is supposed to have the flex pipe fitted to that goes to the heat shield? Just leave it open like it is on my truck since the shield fell off?

2) Ok, I can appreciate the advise to avoid spending money that isnt needed. But why would I be advised to get the RPM intake which builds power from 1500 to 6500 rpm when the engine wont turn much past 4,500 rpm and the plain intake which is cheaper last time I checked is designed for making power from idle to 5500 rpm? I dont want to argue I just want to know why would it be advised to go with a intake that will build power in rpm ranges that the engine will never see? I posted a question simmilar on Edelbrocks message board asking if there would be any negative effects to head flow running the Edelbrock RPM heads with a Edelbrock performer manifold. I wont be able to measure my hood clearance till tomorrow at the earliest. I dont mind using the RPM manifold and paying more for it, but I dont want to go with it if I the plain performer manifold would allow the heads to flow as advertised and build the same power up to 5,000 rpm. I am trying to figure out if its needed. I did all the comparing and the Performer RPM manifold is just 0.24" taller than the Performer with a 1" EGR spacer plate figured into the match. So I am wondering would a 1/4" taller manifold flow much more air than the 1/4" shorter. I would run a 1" carb spacer on the Performer if I went with that or just run it flat with the RPM without a spacer.

3) So spending a little more money and having a bolt in dist that was tuned to your engine specifications is not worth the money? I only ask because in the description it stated The whole point to this is to save me the headache and money in the long run. But at the same time there is also the very specifics that I am wanting to obtain out of the engine after the rebuild. If I was going to just simply get rid of say the oem steel valve covers, the oem air cleaner and go with "trick" parts on that then I might as well junk the oem air compressor the brackets and get a one belt system and go all the way to make it all look right. I am trying to do this for as little as possible but at the same time my ideal goals are 300 - 350 hp but ill settle for 250.



Also I forgot to mention this, the inspection station I used to work at the guy who owns it which is the only inspector there. I dont know how to put it nicely, but he couldnt tell a thermostat from a radiator cap. He isnt too bright when it comes to cars and he works on them as well. Big reason why i went to work for him was to do the mechanical work and get paid for it. Long story short I ended up getting the shaft and moved on to a real repair shop. But I doubt inspections will be my problem for long, I have seriouslly been thinking about registering the car as an antique and get some plates with the 1978 sticker on it issued to it. I know that isnt supposed to fly but Ive seen to this date three people that had it done by stupid people at DPS allowing it.

~update~

Well apparently I as looking at the wrong heads when I said that the Performer and the Performer RPM heads had different flow rates. My orignal statement that they were identical flow rates was correct. I was looking at the flow rates on Edelbrocks website of # 60739 which is for the 1980`s and newer 351`s instead of the Performer # 60329 which is for the 351`s up to 1979. They have the same flow rate how ever which means reguardless of the head and intake combo they should still flow the same rate either with the RPM intake on the RPM head or just plain performer on the RPM head or vice versa. All I know is this starts to get to you when you have pages worth of notes going back and forth.

 

Bottom line here is you can achieve all your goals by acquiring a 95-97 roller 351 (I bought one last year at a local pick-a-part for $325 including the ZF-5speed bolted to it) and simply inspecting it, changing rings and bearings (if it even needs that, mine didn't) keeping the stock roller cam, removing the Thermactor bumps from the exhaust ports of the E7 heads (this takes all of a hour to do with a drill and a carbide porting bit, cleanup of the filings is easy on assembled heads, using a magnet a shop vac and a couple cans of carb cleaner) replacing the stamped 1.6 rockers with a set of Crane Energizer 1.7 full rollers, topping it with the RPM intake and that 600 Holley. You'll spend less than the cost of those Ed heads and have about the same power. You will though need that aftermarket distributor, unless you feel up to changing the cam gear on a stock Ford unit to a steel gear to match the roller cam.

 

1) No it wont hurt anything being open, but I dont want it open. I think it looks tacky and incomplete having nothing attached to that. You might be ok with having it left open and thats fine, but I am not ok with it and it surely doesnt hurt to fabricate up a small sheet metal shield to attach the flex pipe to. Would take all of five minutes to make one up and weld a bolt to the header pipe.

2) You will have to explain that to me on how the heads I picked are for upper RPM breathing. The smallest port volume for a 351W in aftermarket heads is 160 CC with 2.020" intake valve, so how is a 170 CC with 1.90" intake valve built for high rpm breathing? I fail to see this as 170 CC is about ideal for having high velocity at low rpm which will build low rpm torque. Now my only option would be to go smaller with a 160 CC aluminum head with 2.020" intake valve which I honestly think a 2" intake valve is overkill and is more for high rpm breathing than a 1.9" valve.

Also I fail to see how would the performer intake manifold put a cork in the heads? Even if I go with the plain Edelbrock Performer heads and use a Performer intake manifold the flow rates for the Performer heads are identical to the flow rates of the Performer RPM. So how is the performer intake manifold going to cork up the heads?

I also would like to know how would I be limiting these heads by using a stock oem replacement cam? The peak flow of these heads is 0.500" lift and the two cams I had picked out are just over 0.500" lift. So how am I going to kill the performance of these heads when the lift of the cam is at the upper end these heads are able to handle?

Also the big reason why I choosed a stock cam, is because this is an every day car. Why would I put a cam in it that pounds the ground and builds power up to 6,000 RPM when the car wont go past 4,500 rpm because of the 2.50:1 rear axle ratio? That is why I am questioning the advice you are offering because you are advising me to get parts that build high rpm power when the engine just wont turn those kind of rpm`s. honestly I think it would be a waste to have a high rise RPM intake that builds power 1200 to 6500 rpm compared to the performer intake that builds power idle to 5500 rpm when the engine wont ever see over 4500 rpm unless I deside to take the car up to 140 mph then I will start to pass 4500 rpm and then I would need upper rpm breathing.

3) Ok, its good to know that you dont think there will be a performance gain from having a custom tuned distributor for this engine. I will keep that advice in mind. I just would like more explination as to why a distributor that has been tuned for your engine and vehicle is not going to give you a performance upgrade. I would think a custom advance curve set to your engine and your vehicle would offer a bigger improvement to performance than a oem stock distributor.

4) Yes, the car is old enough to be registered as an Antique. But that doesnt change the fact that as I said that I cant legally use the YOM plates but I hope to get them issued. Reason for this is because after 1975 plates went to multi year and used plate stickers. The YOM law states that it has to be a single year only plate which these would not be. Ive seen three cars in recent time that had 1975 plates with the 78 plate sticker on it issued to the vehicle. I planned on going this route in the future.

5) Aquiring a late model roller 351W engine is easier said than done. Junkyards are round here typically dont keep parts once they hit a certain age. Some get rid of the parts after 5 years of not being current others wait till 10 years. Point is though why would I run out and buy a whole new engine for $1,200, and yes complete engines around here from the 90`s are no less than $1,000, when I have the engine and all I would have to do is go with better flowing heads.

As far as changing the distributor gear goes, thats not hard to do. I've done it quite a few times at work.

In the end the biggest thing that has me being reluctant to agree on much is because ive been questioned on everything. Ive been questioned on why I want the engine to appear stock, Ive been questioned on the intake choice I picked, Ive been questioned on the heads Ive picked, Ive been questioned on the distributor ive picked, etc, etc. Ive gotten nothing but questioned on my choices without being provided an explination as to why what I picked will not provide gains. The only thing I have gotten is advice that contradicts what I believe without any explination as to why it would be better to go with a manifold that builds power 1,200 to 6,500 rpm when the engine wont spin over 4,500 under normal street driving conditions. Its just like the heads, im being questioned on these being told these are high rpm power building heads but yet they are only 10cc bigger than the smallest heads offered aftermarket for the windsor small blocks. I think 170cc would be high rpm power for say a 289 and a 302 but for a 351 I honestly dont see how 170cc is too big nor how 1.90" intake valve is a high rpm power building size compared to the 2.02" valves.

If you are going to give me advice that goes against what I was planning atleast explain why and not just tell me it wont work right or its throwing money away and then say nothing else. It is frustrating as hell to have to go to these lengths to explain the reasoning for why I picked what I did only to get a simple response of its not going to work right. If its not explain why it wouldnt and what I should look at. If these heads are truely for high rpm flow and power building then what cc port volume should I look at then cause I can go no smaller than 160cc and then the valve size is 2.02" which is in my opinion a valve size for high rpm breathing compared to a 1.90" valve.

 

You can run big induction and not lose low end, the key is the cam and valvetrain. 170 are too small in my opinion. I am getting a 347 my plan is to run no smaller than 185 would ideally like to run a 205 either trickflows(hopefully) or maybe afrs. I also will either run a RPM air gap or a victor jr single plane intake manifold. I will have my work cut out for me as far as headers go, I would like to run some kooks 1 7/8 primary with dual and crossover three inch exhaust. Thing is I am going to run a custom cam to make it all work in harmony and not lose any bottom end, I will give all my information to the cam guy and he will spec it for me to tie it all together. With all that induction, and exhaust in your favor it allows the engine to breathe and exhale while still running a pretty mild cam so you effectively broaden your HP curve the smaller cam give you good idle quality and good carb signal while all the flow potential of the heads and exhaust prevent it from being choked in the upper rpms. This is JMO. there is the LS motors to look to to see that it works, and a lot of people say the LS is just the evolution of the ford small block. Good luck. Agree or disagree that's my opinion.

 

I'm giving you advice based on actual experience building them, not what I've read on the internet or a book. You're making choices based on the advertising here, not the actual result of those parts in various combinations. That 1200-6500 rpm intake rarely if ever actually gives those exact results. I've used a dozen of them on as many engines (of various displacements, not just a 351) and all of them pulled from idle to whenever the engine combination was done making power. Going off past experience building and running what I've built, if the power is there, you're more likely to "use it", if it's not, then you'l wonder why you spent all that money for a "zero sum gain" engine. I'm going to say it agian, in case you didn't "get it" the last time, the stock roller 351 with a few cheap mods, topped with the RPM intake and a 600 cfm carb will amaze you, it will litterally have double the power and torque the wheezer smog era 351 your car came with, and be more fuel efficient at the same time, with excellant street manners.

 

Here's some food for thought: I have a 1996 E150 conversion van that I just did a GT40 head swap on. It's got a mass-air roller 351W. The only parts changed were the heads (e7TE's to iron GT40's off a Lightning F150) adding a set of 1.7 Cobra roller rockers, and Pacesetter shorty headers. The van got 14 mpg before the mods done, now it gets 15 and it's got about 40-50 more horses plus some added torque too I'm sure. I can confidently say that this 5000+ lb van would likely eat your lunch in that 78 Cougar from redlite to redlite. It's also got a 3.55 rear with 28" tall tires. This is something you really ought to do to that Cougar, if nothing else. Changing the rear gear from what it's got now (likely a 2.50 or 2.75 ratio) to 3.50's would do more for it than those engine mods you're talking about. I can't supply any hard numbers, other than the mileage (this engine in your Cougar would probably get close to 20 mpg, just from the differences in weight and drag coefficient) but it moves the van around town pretty smartly. It's no slouch by any means. And it's bone stock, all factory parts aside from the headers and 3" single exhaust

 

As far as the rear end goes, no, ive done said it once that I am not going to change the gearing in the rear end. One reason is I dont care to fight with recalibrating the speedometer with driven gears, and the second reason is I dont want to be spinning over at 2,000 RPM just to go 40 mph, because that is what you are propsing going with 3.50:1 gearing over the 2.50:1 I have now. As of now I am spinning 1,500 RPM at 45 mph, and I just refuse to do this. I also refuse to do a transmission swap as well because that is modifications which is what I am wanting to avoid.

If I can not get what I am seeking power wise out of the engine by going with the parts I want to then its not even worth my time and I will just put it back to stock specs then. I still have yet seen any explination as to why a high rise intake would perform better than the low rise performer intake manifold on this engine. I mean the car just physically wont see over 4,500 rpm for normal street driving. If I nail the throttle and hit passing gear the transmission shifts out of passing gear at 60 mph @ 4,500 rpm. In 3rd gear on the highway to run 75 MPH I am turning 2,400 rpm. So to see rpm over 4,500 RPM I would have to be going over 140 MPH. So this whole RPM limit I placed upon this engine is based off the physical limitations of the vehicle itself. With the gears and transmission the car has high RPM is just out of the question.

As far as to the edelbrock heads goes, Ive outweighed the benefits of going with the Edelbrock Performer or the Performer RPM heads vs modifying my old heads or tracking down some OEM heads that flow better and modifying them. In the end the edelbrock heads would provide me the most bang for my buck as well as giving me the added benefit of them being aluminum, and already able to run a roller valve train.

As far as the cams goes, Ive had numerous cams picked out but I crossed most of them off my list because I didnt think I would like the idle quality they would provide. Which is how I ended up with the two I found. One is a Crane Cam which is a stock street cam, the other is a comp cams one which is listed as being a oem replacement. They both are very close in specs but the other cams I found ranged from 110 to 114 LSA and I just doubt I would like those cams. I dont mind a exhaust note that has a slight lope to it, but I also dont want it to sound like its a hopped up engine either.

As far as the intake goes, I just dont think a high rise intake would benefit me considering the larger port volume of the high rise intake would cause the velocity to slow down at slower engine speeds which means they would start making power as the rpm figures stated of 1,200 to 6,500 RPM. Anything below 1,200 RPM and the velocity would be too slow for efficiency. Which I am sure it wouldnt matter in the sense that this engine spends most of its life between 1,250 and 1,500 rpm for normal city driving which is still with-in range of the highrise. But I just dont know if I want to go to all the trouble of making the highrise manifold work considering that it would require me either modify my hood or get rid of the OEM air cleaner to get it to clear it.



But I must ask though, if I go with these heads, 9.02:1 compression, the edelbrock performer intake (not the rpm) and one of the cams I picked out of my selection, would in your opinion it be possible to squeeze 400 ft lbs of trq and 300 - 350 hp out of the engine? If not what about 200 - 250 HP then? I am not building this engine to be like a racer or a pure acceleration vehicle, sure I might play around with it and do some mild street racing, but if I can put down a 0 to 60 mph in 6.42 seconds with just 145 HP engine I think I should be able to be competitive with a lot more modern cars with a 300 HP engine. The main goal though of this build is hopefully get a better power to weight ratio and have the engine struggle less to get the vehicle moving thus improving my fuel economy. If it helps below is a list of specs of all the cams I've looked at in order from what I most likely will go with to least likely.

1) 112* LSA, 107* Intake Centerline, 208*/216* @ 0.050", 0.530"/0.530" Lift
2) 114* LSA , 110* Intake Centerline, 210*/215* @ 0.050", 0.533"/0.533" Lift
3) 112* LSA, 108* Intake Centerline, 208*/216* @ 0.050", 0.533"/0.544" Lift
4) 110* LSA, 106* Intake Centerline, 212*/218* @ 0.050", 0.513"/0.513" Lift
5) 110* LSA, 106* Intake Centerline, 206*/206* @ 0.050", 0.533"/0.533" Lift
6) 110* LSA, 106* Intake Centerline, 206*/212* @ 0.050", 0.461"/0.474" Lift
7) 110* LSA, 106* Intake Centerline, 212*/218* @ 0.050", 0.513"/0.513" Lift

Out of these seven cams I found, I narrowed it down to number one or two. I like number three because of the extra lift to exhaust but I honestly dont think .011" more exhaust lift would make much of a difference, especially with exhaust valves that would be larger than the oem factory heads. Power wise out of number one, I am hearing that I should easily make 300 HP and 400 trq with that cam. That is about the highest I've gotten quoted out of the cams I listed above.

Now if number one is not the best choice, then what would you recomend out of the seven I listed. They are all hydraulic rollers, but they are not all made by the same people. What it all comes down to though is what will I have to go with to make everything work right with the performer intake. I know I could make the RPM work like ive done at work making parts work. But then it also comes to what ive read in my research on the matter, that is more volume the port has on heads the slower the velocity will be at slower speeds so less torque and maybe even sluggish performance. I would assume that the same would go with intake manifolds as well, so a larger intake while it would help with upper rpm breathing, I keep asking myself would the performer intake breath excellent up to say 5,000 or 5,500 rpm. They say that it`s operating range is idle to 5,500 rpm, if that is correct and they will work fine up till then, I believe that is what I would need to go with then. That would give me the low end power I want but also allow the engine to breathe at the upper rpm range that the car limits the engine to. I just dont want to end up with a high rise intake and making it work and changing a lot of stuff out and it makes a huge improvement on performance in the upper range of 5,000 rpm and higher. While that is great, I just dont think it would benefit me nor this car to make power at that high of a rpm range.

 

You're not going to do any of that with a 2.50 rearend. Not unless you build a 500 horse, 500 ft/lb torque engine. Street racing ? with 145 hp and a 2.50 reaend, Really ? You're either not reading what's been posted here, or failing to comprehend it. I'm done. Go ahead and do what you want to do. It's going to be one huge *** disappointment.