i really like my solids but have to run some zinc addative for cam life. My big block has a solid by scott, been running for over 5 yrs and around 50,000 miles i guess. My current 400 has a roller. The only thing i gained is no cam issues with mixing oils and zinc issues. keeping up with the oils changing can be a pain in the butt. Little extra maintenance with the solids and a little noise but not a big deal. Bang for the buck solids win! rollers good but expensive to setup.

 

I thought he meant hydraulic flat-tappet. Surely he didn't mean a solid lifter? I told him this needs to be an engine that lasts for a long time and passed down to my kids. They wouldn't have a clue about setting solid lifters.

 

forgot to mention I'm a graduate of school of automotive machinist also. judson the owner of SAM you see in enginemasters is the school in houston. Its a highperformance machining school, great school on engines. Get to meet some really smart guys. If you got a project you want to build they will let you build and teach the skills to build it. You will screw up stock stuff learning the tricks of the trade in automotive machining. Was a really good school and no regrets, took me to the next level in knowledge of what it takes to get the most out of any project you build. still learning to this day!

 

It sounds like Scott really knows his stuff about the 400s. His prices seem pretty good as well.

 

I've been in contact with that school over the last few weeks, and am very interested in going after i get out of the Army here in 5 months. I would like to get some of your thoughts on the school if you don't mind. You can PM me.

Hijack over.......

 

I was impressed by Scott. He sells heads, but he didn't even mention them as he knew they weren't right for my build - unlike someone else.

And, by the way, he was also quick to say I should use a flat-tappet cam.

 

hello army and PM sent!

 

Scott has been a good resource for me over the yrs. I use him every chance i can. I have been burned by machineshops before! MPG happens to be a ford guy you need to know about. I also have bought from Tim Meyer also on occasion also. Will be talking to Tim on my next 400 build. 4 bolt main block soon. Both good shops to know about in ford world. I just happen to live in high elevation and scott knows hi elevation. He knows my air situation. Good luck and great website to learn as much as you can. Get the most out of every build you can. money don't grow on trees$.

 

This is a duplicate of a post on Dad's Truck Build on the 80-86 forum.

Here's a consolidation of the input I've gotten on cams:

Edelbrock: They don't have a roller cam for the 400, ..... But, while there is a significant reduction in friction that may not show up in MPG. What the roller setup really provides is the ability to handle longer durations than flat-tappet cams. However, long duration cams aren't that helpful in gaining MPG, and are really a plus for those seeking more power. And, they pretty much do away with the problem of having a cam go flat.

Tim Meyer: There are definitely advantages to a roller cam beyond being able to run longer durations. Because the ramps can be steeper than on a flat-tappet cam you can actually go to shorter duration and/or lift with a roller and still have the same flow (area under the curve). That actually helps the torque and, therefore, MPG figures. As for pricing he has Comp grind a custom cam for $290. On the lifters, if I'm not going to wind it up to get max HP then I could use 5.0L rollers, which cost $175 instead of $375 for tie-bar lifters. And rockers will cost $250, for a total of $715 with the 5.0L and $915 if I want to let'er rip.

Comp Cams:

• Flat tappet cams need to run an oil additive to last if not a special oil
• Roller cams can have a more agressive ramp. (But, there was an implication that not all do.)
• Roller cams last longer
• Prefer the linked-rollers over the spider/dogbone approach. But, if doing the latter you should at least smooth the tops of the lifter bores in the block with a die grinder, if not mill them flat.
• Recommend the 260HR as best for low-end torque and fuel mileage. (Note: Three different techs have recommended that cam.)
• Expect to see 10 - 15 HP more with a roller, both from the reduced friction as well as the better profile. (Note: These #'s were identical in all three conversations I've had with three different techs at Comp.)
• ... the engine would be more fun to drive as it would rev more quickly, but he wouldn't do it if it were him. If it were him he would stay with the flat tappet and run an additive in the oil."

Scott @ MPG:

• Roller cams are not better, they are just more expensive. He will sell me one, but doesn't recommend it.
• Use "old car oil" like that from Joe Gibbs, or Valvoline as it has the needed additives for a flat tappet cam.
• The cam he spec'd the first time is the same cam he spec'd the 2nd time (200˚/205˚ @ .050", 112˚ separation, & .460" lift). But, for the low-end power and MPG he suggested installing it on a 110˚ intake centerline instead of the 108˚ centerline.

So, what I'm now struggling with are two different issues/concerns:

1. Which expert to believe: Here's an example - I have Tim Meyer, a widely-recognized guru on these engines, recommending a head with 10.5:1 compression ratio and a single plane intake. And that's after I've told him several times that I want low RPM, tractor-like, torque. So, since that flies in the face of all I've read and experienced I dismiss it. But, do I dismiss Tim and everything he says? After all, he has a custom cam he has Comp grind. On the other hand I have Scott, an equally renowned guru, telling me what I want to hear about using Edelbrock heads, and then he says "Roller cams are not better, they are just more [U]expensive." Do I buy everything he says, or pick and choose which "truths" I want to believe?
2. Is an individual/small company as capable as a large company: In other words, is there a reason to believe that a small company like MPG Heads or TMI knows better than a cam-specific company, like Comp, what cam I should have? Does Tim or Scott's time on the dyno with these engines mean they have info specific to my needs? Or, has their time been targeted to getting the most HP out of an engine? Conversely, might Comp, who markets to a wide range of needs, have a better handle on what I'm looking for?

I've asked the guys on the other forum for their input, and would like yours as well. Flat tappet or roller? Custom grind or off-the-shelf? Thanks in advance!

 

I am sold on the roller for the oil issues. I couldn't imagine the next owners of the truck doing anything more than taking it to Jiffy Lube for the $19.99 deal.

 

You haven't even met them and you have them figured out.

I have two sets of kids - a daughter and SiL, and son and DiL. The last time I visited the daughter/SiL I had to add a quart to find oil on the dipstick in their Pacifica, and had to go to the parts store to get an oil filler cap 'cause it was missing. Not sure why it is using oil - might it be the cheap oil I'm using from that drum in the shop that's doing it?

And a year or so ago the son called and asked why the oil pressure light was coming on and then going off on their Volkswagen. I asked him if it came on when cornering and he said yes, so I told him the oil was low and it was moving away from the pickup and starving the pump. He said it couldn't be 'cause they'd just had the oil changed - at Jiffy Lube. I asked if he had checked the level - no. So, I again said it was low and JL either didn't completely fill it up or didn't tighten the drain plug. Turned out it was low on oil and the drain plug wasn't tight.

So, what makes you so sure they won't maintain it correctly?

 

The good thing would be that the vehicles they are going to inherit probably wont be driven a lot. So they may only need a couple of oil changes in their lifespan with their new owners.

This goes back to the conversation I was having with you about my son Kris and pondering if not letting him work on cars or do construction projects could lead to a better future with careers in his life.

 

True. Our kids, all four of them if you will, have careers. So, wrenching isn't high on the list, although the SiL has learned out of necessity. Given that, maybe having them stay away from wrenching is a good deal - although I didn't think of that but just stumbled into it.

 

The reason I have the career I do is because I got tired of making money for other people by turning wrenches. I went to college, did my thing and only went to classes I liked. Nobody told me to drop out of the classes I didn't like, so I eventually was told to go away. So, I went to tech school for a year, graduated with a 4.0, and had a full ride scholarship to OSU-Okmulgee. Instead of doing that directly, I decided to go turn wrenches in the best shop in Stillwater and did that for two years. Slowly over that time, I got tired of working on my own stuff and decided it wasn't for me anymore. So, one day I got up, went to work, and had a heart to heart with the boss over lunch and that was my last day professionally turning wrenches (for a while, at least - I did it again when I moved to OKC). That experience taught me a lot, and ultimately turned on my own desire to get my college career underway. 10 years later, I've got my Associate's, Bachelor's, and Master's degree and work for the DOD-USAF as a civil servant.

I'm saying all of this because I took the long road, picked up very good skills along the way by working a ton of jobs learning all sorts of things, that I have a lot of skills that I can apply in life. If it weren't for all of my experiences and some hard, back breaking jobs, I wouldn't have learned for myself what was important and what would make me happy. I say encourage any child to learn whatever they can about as much as they can so they can be better equipped to be successful and happy with life.

I love how philosophies of life and mechanics sometimes go hand in hand. Sort of like Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, I guess. LOL! I remember a picture of a barn/mechanic's shop in one of my history classes that had a sign on the barn that read, "We can fix most things except for broken hearts." I wish I could find that photo again.

 

Well said. Master's in what?