Flooding?
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Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2008
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From: Renton, WA
Uhm yeah, idk about you guys but I have little doubt my starting issue was anything other then too much fuel. I've just fixed all my return issues and have installed an electric fuel pump. Add to it that every start from then on with little throttle has fired immediatly. Before I was cranking for quite a while with quite a bit of throttle, this wasn't just one time but many cold starts. I'd watch grey smoke puff out the tailpipe. This smoke I can only assume is unburnt fuel.
This thread has a pic of the visor with the diesel starting procedure. https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...-for-6-9l.html
This thread has a pic of the visor with the diesel starting procedure. https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...-for-6-9l.html
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2011
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while too much fuel doesn't seem to make sense logically, and if "flooding" were the true issue, you wouldn't fire up right away when releasing the pedal, it may be that your injectors are worn and don't atomize the fuel as well as they should, and its worse when giving them more fuel. thats just speculation, but as we discussed earlier in this thread, you've found what your engine likes, and thats good enough for now
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 18,488
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From: The Big, Oregon
How old are your injectors? Maybe the spray isn't a spray, and is just shooting in there. More would be worse in that case, but as said before a diesel can't flood. They can hydrolock, but that would involve some real volume of liquid in the cylinder. As soon as there is sufficient heat in the cylinder, whatever is in there will burn. Less heat is required to ignite a fine mist than a stream though-
Logistics Pro
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: Western Mass
I'll agree on checking your injectors. Diesels are WAY different than gassers... Fuel to air ratio isn't really an issue with a diesel. They can run "rich" which is rolling coal (and frowned upon by those on this forum), but thats basically just wasting your fuel. Diesels really can't be too "lean". The ignition is all based on the heat generated by the high compression ratio, unlike gas engines that use a spark to ignite gas thats mixed with a certain ratio of air.
Does your cold start timing advance solenoid work? I can't remember if thats affected by the throttle position, but could be something else to check out.
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Postmaster
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From: Renton, WA
I have no idea, haven't had the truck long, the PO said the guy he got it from said the engine was rebuilt. That said the injectors have grey paint on them, so, idk.
I guess it does, the idle is high until it warms up. I've never noticed the pedal move though.
I guess it does, the idle is high until it warms up. I've never noticed the pedal move though.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: Western Mass
Cold timing advance and high idle solenoid are two different things. The high idle is the one thats on the left as you're facing the engine (passenger side). The cold timing advance solenoid is inside the pump housing and can't be seen. The terminal for the cold timing advance is on the top right of the pump (facing the engine or drivers side). There are two terminals there, the one to the front of the truck is the fuel shutoff solenoid, just behind it is the timing advance terminal.
You'd only notice the pedal moving if the truck is idling and your foot is resting on the pedal, basically when the truck is stopped. The pedal sits lower because the throttle is held by the high idle solenoid.
As far as the injectors having grey paint, was the whole engine painted grey when it was "rebuilt". If not, its likely those are the original injectors. When I got my truck it had ~175,000 miles. Not only were the injectors grey, but the return lines where as well.... I was quite surprised it lasted that long with the original return lines!
You'd only notice the pedal moving if the truck is idling and your foot is resting on the pedal, basically when the truck is stopped. The pedal sits lower because the throttle is held by the high idle solenoid.
As far as the injectors having grey paint, was the whole engine painted grey when it was "rebuilt". If not, its likely those are the original injectors. When I got my truck it had ~175,000 miles. Not only were the injectors grey, but the return lines where as well.... I was quite surprised it lasted that long with the original return lines!
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 589
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From: Nutter Fort,West Virginia
how does giving a diesel too much fuel not make sense on a cold start?
although your glow plug should be enough to get the fire started, the more cold fuel you inject into the cylinder means that there is less heat to go around for the rest of the fuel.
and btw, your truck will give it self more fuel than idle when sitting due to the gov opening up at sub throttle position rpm.
although your glow plug should be enough to get the fire started, the more cold fuel you inject into the cylinder means that there is less heat to go around for the rest of the fuel.
and btw, your truck will give it self more fuel than idle when sitting due to the gov opening up at sub throttle position rpm.
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Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2008
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From: Renton, WA
Why would Ford say floor it? Also more fuel should also mean more compression as it takes up quench space.
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Elder User
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Nutter Fort,West Virginia
if your glow plugs are in good working order then it will start as soon as it touches the plug, but if not a finer mist and enough fuel to get the engine to tick over would light better.
i have not read anything on this, but it makes sense to me.
and as far as taking up the compression ratio, wouldn't water injection cause the egts to run hotter then? (obviously it's not fuel, but it still increases the ratio.)
i have not read anything on this, but it makes sense to me.
and as far as taking up the compression ratio, wouldn't water injection cause the egts to run hotter then? (obviously it's not fuel, but it still increases the ratio.)
Logistics Pro
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: Western Mass
No it wouldn't, because as the water heats up, it will turn into steam and that absorbs a lot of heat to change from liquid to gas. Think about spraying yourself with a fine water mist in the summer heat, and how much that cools you down... its the same idea.
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thats correct, but don't forget how much that water expands while turning to steam, all that extra pressure it produces should really help performance as well
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2010
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From: NW Ga
My experience on to much fuel is it can be bad. Diesels are like gassers in that there is a sweet spot in the air fuel ratio that makes it easier for the fuel to ignite at the right time. To much fuel can cause a diesel to be hard to crank. I don't know if more fuel requires more heat to fire or it may need more compression. It possibly may be flooding it. Flooding is supplying more fuel than it can ignite and burn. Spark plugs get fouled not flooded. I get reminded of this every couple of weeks when I get into my skid steer first thing in the morning and try to crank it and it doesn't fire right up. 99% percent of the time the guy that works with me has left it at full throttle when he shut it off the day before.
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