sadly i am not one of those people lol.i fail miserably trying without the meter.
knowing what i know now,i know it's better to leave the thing alone without the equipment.man i was way out left field.
if the ip lines are close,best to leave 'em that way if you lack the tools imho.

 

Dave S. posted his "timing by ear" technique a couple of years back. He said in that post that he preferred it over the timing light method because on more than one occasion he was able to verify that the timing marks were "off" on these engines. I think he said when he disassembled his he measured a 3* error! Anyone else ever run into this?

 

I went and bought one of those timing light adapters that use a piezo crystal that clamps onto an injector line. Costs about $250. Worse investment I ever made. It at 8 degrees BTC, as the specs say and the timing light fires, the engine runs like poop. Timed by ear, and it runs like a champ.

 

how old is the IP?

 

yes it's very common.there are lots of variables that effect the line relationship with actual timing.
some examples;
elevation and fuel cetane levels.ip ware.the position of the internal fuel screw.n/a or turbocharged etc.

when i was n/a my marks for proper timing were like most common using the same ip as this:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/3...ml#post9927448

however after installing the turbo and turning the fuel up,using the same ip,i found to achieve the same exact timing (i was using a lumy meter then at 6 degree after top dead center) that my lines then needed to be just about lined up.
so it "appeared" as if i retarded my timing after the turbo and fuel screw turned up 1.5ish's flats,when in reality it was simply twisted towards the drivers side to keep the same timing.

that's when you need to suspect someone (or yourself) improperly swapped an ip and now have the cam/valve timing teeth incorrectly set.
there is now a sticky at the top of the page to see about making sure all those are aligned properly.
then,and only then can you dynamically time the engine using the tools for a proper reading.
since improperly removing the ip is done so often on these engines,i personally feel this to be a large reason why many people who haven't run a properly tuned idi think of these engines as weak ducklings because they try and go by those lines when they have their gear teeth off a tooth or two,when really to compensate,the ip lines wouldn't even be in the ballpark.but leaving it that way with the ip twisted so much might run you the risk of valve clearance,im not too sure about that one.id want to fix it regardless.
of course you do know when using that adapter (ferret?) you need to use the 0 degree mark,and a light with timing advance? - just checking.

 

A perfect example:

My first IDI I replaced the IP which was leaking. The PO had replaced the injectors thinking it would run better. When I got the truck it smoked white even when warmed up and shook pretty violently when it was below 40 degrees out. Using my new favorite tool, FTE, as a guidline; I tweaked the IP continously until I could hear the "Powerstroke rattle" when power was applied to the cold advance and would smooth out with advance off. After playing around with my Ferret adapter and timing light with dial advance I can plainly see why I toasted my first set of glow plugs. With that motor timed by ear to the common recomendation, I had to be 10* minimum. No telling for sure but I could have been way higher!

Fast forward to tonight when I had my meter on two different trucks and I can see just how difficult it can be to time by ear. My truck has a new IP and injectors and it was set by ear just so it would run fine. I drove it this way for several months. EGTs were never out of control, the truck had decent power and pulled fine. When the numbers rolled in it turns out my first try netted me 5* BTDC. Not bad, but not spec either. The other truck has unknown mileage on the fuel system and ran like garbage, white smoke then black smoke, missing and just not pleasant to watch. That one was 4* BTDC. Take it for what it's worth but there has got to be some other issues with that motor.

I marked off approximately .100" to move my IP towards passenger side, maybe less-lets call it a "dime and a half" same for the other rig (which still runs kinda goofy so again, FWIW). Rechecking had both motors at 9*BTDC. Good try I guess. What really suprised me was the fact that to my ear I could not hear a difference in 4 and 5 more degrees advance respectively.

Driving impressions at first lead me to think that I've lost at least 1 pound of boost in most normal conditions while I can still peg 11 psi overall. Boost is a little slower to come on. The motor does still feel like there's plenty of "grunt" to allow short shifting unloaded and just puttering around, while there is still a good amount of power to be had at the 1800+ RPM range. In reality, when hooked on to any real amount of resistance I don't anticipate being able to grab the next gear any lower than this. I feel like the IDI likes to rev a little when there's a load behind it so I'm not going to lose sleep over a little less turbo response.

Timing set on the high side of spec also has a slight advantage in the cold which is a big plus around here this time of year so for now I think mine will stay at 9*.

 

I understand what you are saying... Those are the variables that make "dynamic" timing necessary. I need to dig up Dave's thread, but I thought he was refering to inacuracy of the static, geared mechanical relationship of the damper/crank/cam/pump. Again, iirc, it was the position of the damper on the crank that created the problem. Basically he was able to position the rotating assembly at TDC with the engine partially assembled and see that the mark on the damper was not at zero but about 3* off. I'll look for this thread later, too hard to search FTE on my phone...

 

So then my question is this....Would it be worth it to have my IP timing adjusted/verified since it has 120K on it (I think)? It seems to run smooth and have decent power (though I don't have anything for comparion) but my MPG is a little low. I plan on installing a new IP/injectors in the spring.

Would the old injectors make it so the IP timing should be different? My thought is that if the injectors are worn and the POP pressure is lower then they would open earlier causeing the fuel to start to enter the cylinder earlier than desired.....which could cause the mixture to combust too early=knock and possible damage.

 

would this be usuable for timing our engines. i believe it would but i have never messed with timing but i may need to as i had just rebuilt my motor. MT257B, Adaptor, Diesel Pulse

 

that adapter should work, but most people here talk about using this one Ferret Instruments , V765-01 Diesel Injection Detector / Timing Adapter - 765

 

is there much difference between them? i have a credit account with snapon through work is why i ask.

 

Does that credit account get you $100 off the list price? Cause that's about how much more you'll pay for the Ferret and a timing light.


By the way; past readings before last night's must have been flawed. At 9* 2K RPM I have 13* BTDC at idle, does that sound more correct?

 

yeah probably.i know it's quite a bit higher.probably even scarier looking if you checked it with the timing advance on lol.but i dare say your about right.
though can't say im a fan of 9 degrees @ 2k.
im with Racin,i think less is more especially for us with turbo's.
not sure what we should be doing for winter blend fuels? do modern engines retard or advance for the slop? that's the question.im guessing since its weaker,we need to start the burn a bit earlier to help get a full burn on the junk? i'll probably knock her back to 6 or 7 and see how she likes it.

 

i kind of doubt they do anything to adjust for fuel.

 

Can i remove my throttle stop? This looks like i would gain more petal