Seriously torn right now....
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Tuned
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 451
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Seriously torn right now....
Well ive just about finished up all the minor details on all parts (including the motor, should be paying for it tomorrow), and my wish list from clay thats about to become reality.
(NOTE I HAVE NOT TALKED TO ROSEWOOD YET, JUST COMING HERE FOR AN OPINION, IVE READ ABOUT 50-60 INJECTOR THREADS TONIGHT AND IT MADE THE CHOICE MORE DIFFICULT!)
For my dilemma, injectors....oh the decision. Originally I had planned on using rosewood premium stage 1's. Now for the issue.....Is there any downside to going the budget stage 2 setup?
The stage 2's being significantly cheaper and allow for money to be invested elsewhere in the vehicle, my only concern is the performance differences between single or split shot...Im trying to gear this towards people who have ran stage1 or stage2 single AND split shots. Im honestly leaning more towards the stage 2's due to the cost, im only wanting to bring this truck to around 350, with 400 being the peak horsepower because it's staying a daily driver for the indefinite future. I need to hash this out so that way I can get my chip ordered, and will probably have a decision tomorrow or wednesday, just looking for opinions, the stage 2 setup seems too good to be true....
Man I cant wait to get this over with....was looking forward to it at first now im feeling a bit overwhelmed
(NOTE I HAVE NOT TALKED TO ROSEWOOD YET, JUST COMING HERE FOR AN OPINION, IVE READ ABOUT 50-60 INJECTOR THREADS TONIGHT AND IT MADE THE CHOICE MORE DIFFICULT!)
For my dilemma, injectors....oh the decision. Originally I had planned on using rosewood premium stage 1's. Now for the issue.....Is there any downside to going the budget stage 2 setup?
Premium Stage-1/c: $1455 *Overhaul, converts to 160 cc Single Shots, new Plunger & Barrel assemblies, new Nozzles. With correct supporting mods, these are capable of around 325 hp.
Budget Stage-2/s: $885 Overhaul, retains AB or AD fuel output, new nozzles flow 80% over stock. With correct supporting mods, these are capable of around 385 hp.
Man I cant wait to get this over with....was looking forward to it at first now im feeling a bit overwhelmed
Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,993
Likes: 2
From: Bend, OR
His numbers are jacked up...
A 160cc injector with a stock nozzle will dyno ALL DAY, EVERY DAY 350hp...
An AD with an 80% nozzle will dyno about 350hp, will cause you nothing but issues with ICP...
A 160cc injector with a 100% nozzle will dyno at 400-425hp.
I have run modified split shot injectors. There is a reason why no one builds or runs modded split shots.
A 160cc injector with a stock nozzle will dyno ALL DAY, EVERY DAY 350hp...
An AD with an 80% nozzle will dyno about 350hp, will cause you nothing but issues with ICP...
A 160cc injector with a 100% nozzle will dyno at 400-425hp.
I have run modified split shot injectors. There is a reason why no one builds or runs modded split shots.
Postmaster
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,993
Likes: 2
From: Bend, OR
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The most common question I see for guys wanting to pick injectors is what to get and why.
There is a general formula I like to use that is 2.3HP for every CC of fuel that you can use effectively. Do these numbers jive with what everyone is seeing in the real world?
So figuring RWHP with an automatic trans. This takes into account horsepower peak happening between 2600-3000RPMs. All numbers based on single shots.
Here are some common injector combinations and the power level they usually accomodate. This also assumes you can maintain proper HPOP pressure.
I am also using common street nozzles 30% EH, 80% and 100% EDM nozzles. The larger nozzles allow you to push the power peak up into the higher rpms and make more HP. These are typical fuel only numbers because nitrous oxide allows you to peak the power lower in the RPM scale and make more peak torque and therefore more HP. There are so many variables that these are merely general guidlines.
General Rule of Thumb max power with no nitrous (but a properly matched turbo):
90cc stock nozzle 225HP
130cc stock nozzle 260-290HP
160cc stock nozzle 300-345HP
160cc 30% nozzle 350-360HP
180cc stock nozzle 300-350HP
180cc 30% nozzle 370-390HP
180cc 80% nozzle 400-425HP
200cc 30% nozzle 385-410HP
200cc 80% nozzle 400-440HP
200cc 100% nozzle 420-460HP
238cc 30% nozzle 440-475HP
(depends on air flow in lower rpms can make 550HP with nitrous for example)
238cc 80% nozzle 450-520HP
238cc 100% nozzle 465-550HP
250cc 30% not much gain over 238cc with 30%
250cc 80% nozzle 460-530HP
250cc 100% nozzle 470-575HP
It gets sketchy above that number due to the other variables that are involved with HP levels much above 550. Also remember that RPM can play a major factor. Somebody have corrections or want to add anything?
__________________
Matt Robinson
Gearhead Automotive Performance
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
There is a general formula I like to use that is 2.3HP for every CC of fuel that you can use effectively. Do these numbers jive with what everyone is seeing in the real world?
So figuring RWHP with an automatic trans. This takes into account horsepower peak happening between 2600-3000RPMs. All numbers based on single shots.
Here are some common injector combinations and the power level they usually accomodate. This also assumes you can maintain proper HPOP pressure.
I am also using common street nozzles 30% EH, 80% and 100% EDM nozzles. The larger nozzles allow you to push the power peak up into the higher rpms and make more HP. These are typical fuel only numbers because nitrous oxide allows you to peak the power lower in the RPM scale and make more peak torque and therefore more HP. There are so many variables that these are merely general guidlines.
General Rule of Thumb max power with no nitrous (but a properly matched turbo):
90cc stock nozzle 225HP
130cc stock nozzle 260-290HP
160cc stock nozzle 300-345HP
160cc 30% nozzle 350-360HP
180cc stock nozzle 300-350HP
180cc 30% nozzle 370-390HP
180cc 80% nozzle 400-425HP
200cc 30% nozzle 385-410HP
200cc 80% nozzle 400-440HP
200cc 100% nozzle 420-460HP
238cc 30% nozzle 440-475HP
(depends on air flow in lower rpms can make 550HP with nitrous for example)
238cc 80% nozzle 450-520HP
238cc 100% nozzle 465-550HP
250cc 30% not much gain over 238cc with 30%
250cc 80% nozzle 460-530HP
250cc 100% nozzle 470-575HP
It gets sketchy above that number due to the other variables that are involved with HP levels much above 550. Also remember that RPM can play a major factor. Somebody have corrections or want to add anything?
__________________
Matt Robinson
Gearhead Automotive Performance
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Sep 2012
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well joe i think youve just made my decision alot easier, thanks. Im going with rosewood because while the motors getting swapped i can run up and drop off the injectors and pick them up, its really for ease of mind to know that i wont be waiting on shipping and paying core fees, just trying to get the best bang for my buck.
Molon Labe
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,272
Likes: 1
From: Alaska
I recently had Jim rebuild my injectors into stage 1 premiums. I absolutely love them over the stock splits.
The stage 1's are "premiums" priced higher because of the new plungers, barrels, and nozzles.
The stage 2's you listed were the budget build.
From my research new plungers, barrels, and nozzles are a "very good idea" when building an injector.
Jim is a heck of a nice guy and will answer all of your questions when you call.
I used to live not far south of Jim a few years ago myself.
The stage 1's are "premiums" priced higher because of the new plungers, barrels, and nozzles.
The stage 2's you listed were the budget build.
From my research new plungers, barrels, and nozzles are a "very good idea" when building an injector.
Jim is a heck of a nice guy and will answer all of your questions when you call.
I used to live not far south of Jim a few years ago myself.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 26,966
Likes: 50
From: Texas
Jim will post more conservative numbers on his injectors, part of which is because he's used to dealing with the OBS models with smaller turbo's, etc. The other part is he's a pretty straight forward guy and won't try to "sell" you stuff based on claims.
Not sure about saving money dropping them off though. Looks like you're about 400 miles away (what's a ground pounder doing stationed in MD anyway?) unless you've got the truck home on leave.
Not sure about saving money dropping them off though. Looks like you're about 400 miles away (what's a ground pounder doing stationed in MD anyway?) unless you've got the truck home on leave.
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Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Sep 2012
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Likes: 120
Jim will post more conservative numbers on his injectors, part of which is because he's used to dealing with the OBS models with smaller turbo's, etc. The other part is he's a pretty straight forward guy and won't try to "sell" you stuff based on claims.
Not sure about saving money dropping them off though. Looks like you're about 400 miles away (what's a ground pounder doing stationed in MD anyway?) unless you've got the truck home on leave.
Not sure about saving money dropping them off though. Looks like you're about 400 miles away (what's a ground pounder doing stationed in MD anyway?) unless you've got the truck home on leave.
Ill have the truck up there mid-november putting a new built engine in it, and and going with bigger injectors at the same time, as well as a slew of other upgrades. Trying to get on leave around nov10-13 and not returning till nov 30th so while i left myself some space (motor and everything will be sitting there ready to drop in all i have to do is pull mine, do some painting and cleaning and put the new one in), id like to go put a deer or two in the freezer and relax a bit while im there
.As far as being stationed in MD, im at indian head naval base, just across the river from quantico at CBIRF (Chemical Biological Incident Response Force), basically 2 sections 1 on 24 hour standby for 60 days and 1 off for 60 days, in case something goes down in the capitol region, although we respond pretty much anywhere (they went to japan during the most recent nuclear crisis from the tsunami, if thats what happened, i was busy winning a war in afghanistan
). Pretty much where grunts go to die. Kind of a transition station for us, most of us have alot of medical (TBI, PTSD) issues etc. so we can utilize bethesda and get proper treatment before we get out.
Thread Starter
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Tuned
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 451
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Appreciate all the input, once again another reason FTE is my new home
Posting Guru
Joined: May 2011
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I'm not seeing the remanned on his site at but I know he has and sells them, he himself told me the brand and price including all new plungers and whatnot. He also makes his own performance injectors.
David.
Diesel Innovations Online Performance Diesel Products!