Thanks for the input Gonzo. For you, which came first; the chip or the sticks? I assume your stock HPOP has been enough to meet the needs of both...? Any plans for a new HPOP in the future?

The Superchip for me is more a matter of convenience/fuel economy; less performance/enhancement. I get better MPGs with that tune than I do with stock, so I run it. If that were not the case, I'd probably throw it in the trash. EGTs spike way too soon on any of the tunes and the reflash process makes me want to smash it every time I pull it out.

 

Ya I didn't figure you were overly impressed with the superchip or you wouldn't be considering a DP-Tuner

I actually did the injectors, tuner, and gauges all at the same time. I needed injectors and it was such a small increase in price for stage 1 single shots that I just ordered them. After talking with Casserly he said I would be able to drive the truck without a chip but I would not be able to tow without a chip. I had been putting off buying a chip for years (I figured if I had extra money to mod my truck then I had extra money to pay off my loan) so it was a good time to add the chip. I knew if I had the chip I would want to play so I needed gauges also.

I do have plans for an hpop in the future but it is not high on the list at the moment. The list looks something like this:

1. Bellowed up-pipes (sitting in garage waiting to be installed)
2. AIH delete (sitting in box waiting to be installed)
3. Hutch mod
4. FRx
5. turbo
6. hpop
7. transmission (subject to move up the list at first sign of slippage)

 

FRx quieted things down under the hood, plus I have that thing in the back of my mind that I'm treating my injectors better. It's not a performance mod, it's a longevity and comfort mod.

I chipped with the F6 first because I knew I'd change things and I wanted the email and download convenience. I bought the AE later for the sake of troubleshooting my truck and it paid for itself right quick. Once I dug into graphing the performance of the truck, I could graph in stock mode and do a run. Push the button on the tuner, and graph the next tune. I have 9 tunes and I've graphed all the driving tunes (5 of them), I don't count the decel tune. Changing tunes takes one second. My old HPOP handled the old sticks fine in stock, but asking more than stock performance out of the truck put a strain on the HPOP. I dropped the T500 in there and WABAM. I'm almost perfect, but not quite. I strongly suspect my tired injectors and I've already lost two of them with over 1/4-million miles on the truck. Stage 1 160 single-shots (engineered for the International high-torque T444E) look very attractive to me, so that's the next step. I imagine a T38R won't be far behind.

Envision what I can do - I'm driving along in my favorite fuel economy tune (60e) with the cruise set at 65 on a two-lane highway. Uh-oh... truck on a hill. Let off the right foot a sec, change tunes to something spicy, and drive until the chance to pass. Hammer down and that truck is in the rearview in a startling short distance and time - then back to 60e and cruise control. I live on a steep hill and the power tunes are a little obnoxious-sounding for the neighborhood, so I drop it to stock (stealth mode) when approaching home. The quiet tune is uberstealth for waiting in line at the coffee shack.

Don't like the shift? Phone call or email out, then modified tune in return email. New sticks? Specs out - modified tunes in email back. Bought something bigger to tow? Buy the bigger tow tune online and it's emailed to you.

Had I to do it over again, chip first - then HPOP later (but that's just me). Click that first link in my signature - that was a hill climb before the HPOP. I have yet to make a new vid with T500.

 

I don't disagree with doing the HPOP before the chip. That's fine. The key is, you shouldn't chip without gauges...even with your current programmer on there.

Whoever mentioned HUTCH Mod, absolutely...cheap, effective, necessary $50 modification.

As for the HPX, just look at the graphs people have posted over the years of their ICP before and after installing one. Amazing. Here's a link to a vendor who has graphs: KCM HPX Line OBS

I put the HPX in both of my trucks about 8 years ago, prior to being chipped. It made a huge difference in cackle, truck runs smoother, more even power band. The FRX increased that effect as well. The "Meh" you hear, are most likely guys who install it and then look for the immediate difference. You have to drive about 50 miles before it smooths out. I was on the highway when I hit 50-60 miles, and within about a 2-3 minute period, the engine got quieter. I turned to my wife and said, "WOW, did you notice that?" She didn't, but I could also feel it in the pedal. It was pretty weird, and cool.

 

Is there anything more fun than the spirited debate on how another man should spend his money?

I love it. Thanks for all the comments guys. I'm off to work so I will have to get detailed replies up later today. But, feel free to continue in my absence.

 

Regarding the HPx and FRx... you have to read between the lines of what a lot of folks post about either or both, especially about comparing the two. Both mods have real-world value from a technical engineering standpoint because they individually balance head pressures just as they should - one on the fuel side and the other on the oil side.

What a lot of people are chasing is the reduction of engine cackle with these two mods, and you have to realize that in terms of what you can actually hear going on in the engine is limited to your hearing ability which does not include the full range of the audio spectrum. In terms of ear-detectable noise, every single mod you do to address that issue will by its very nature limit how much additional noise you can reduce with the next mod... and this is true regardless of which order you do the mods.

Less step back in history a little bit, too, since both mods were targeting cackle reductions. The HPx has been around for quite some time, and from what I've observed, until just the past several years, the only way to address this issue on the fuel side was typically with a fully designed high-dollar regulated return setup. Dino Fuel Alternatives, Clay, and perhaps a few more individuals began offering a "poor man's reg return kit" just in the past four years, so now you have more people making the comparison between the two, and we still arrive at what I described above.... each successive mod has a lesser and lesser chance of reducing engine cackle regardless of which mod gets done first because we humans are limited in how much noise we can actually hear above the base level of noise generated by the engine. The same principle holds true for mods which can theoretically affect mileage gains - each completed mod reduces how much gain is left to achieve from successive mods.

Again, both mods we're talking about have solid engineering merit in terms of balancing head pressures on your engine, and I have personally come to the conclusion that it's best for your injectors to do both.

Add my $0.02 to the other $0.02 contributions in this thread and you might eventually be able to get a cup of cheap coffee.

 

That makes sense, as does the graphing of the HPX. As I read the "propaganda" on the different products, smoother/quieter idle is the pitch. I would think that this would address pressure spikes across the board - but I also understand as the oil gets used in quicker pulses, the spikes increase in frequency and diminish in amplitude.

In one sentence: I am now convinced the HPX is a viable mod to quiet idle cackle, but it ultimately extends the life of the HPOP, HPOP lines, and the injectors.

I'm all about longevity, reliability, and economy - and power, when it doesn't compromise the first three.

Side note... My wife notices every tiny improvement in sound, both in the truck and out. She loves riding in the truck and we take frequent long-legged trips together.

 

Is all about which came first the chicken or the egg. Everyone here has the same mods in mind to get done. The only problem is there is more than one way to walmart, hence everyone here will go their own way. Not one way is better than the other so in all reality it is up to you in what order you do them. Reading your sig you have the basics. So hpop now and chip later or chip now and hpop later it doesn't matter cause the tunes don't have to be rewritten for the hpop(just finished emailing dp for my own personal interest). So if you feel more comfortable with the hpop then go that route.


Tugly: I have recently installed the HPX (within the last 6 months) and I am in favor of it. It did quiet down my engine for me a noticeable amount. It made it run smoother as well. Then with the addition of the DK/2stroke oil mixture it has made the truck run that much better. The FRX is on the list soon to be done and can't wait.

 

I was running a little late for work today, but I did manage to retune back to stock and run AE on my route to work. Here's a snapshot.

 

Big hills in OD? If you really want to see what's up with your truck/tune, here's the list.

ICP - PSI
ICP DC (IPR) - %
FIPW - ms
RPM
MPH

Make sure you go into your settings per parameter and set realistic maximums. Default settings are supposed to work with any vehicle (like a gas engine), so preset numbers can be absurd - like a max RPM of 8000.

MPH max = 100
RPM max = 3500
ICP max = 3500
FIPW max = 6

These numbers will give you excellent graphing results.

 

Looks like your HPOP is making 2700-ish psi on your graph. What's not to like?

 

Heres a run in May.

 

Wow. You can tell all that just from looking at those numbers?

1st pull was going up a moderate hill, in OD.

1st trough is a stop light.

Next two pulls were rolling wide open throttle, flat/very slight down hill.

Next two pulls were a bit more of a steep hill.

I'll make those configuration changes and run it again tomorrow on my way to work. Should be able to find some flatter land.

 

Well, that's what I'd like to know!

I'd certainly love to wrap this thread up with a warm fuzzy feeling about my HPOP to make the chip decision easier.

 

Sorry... not quite yet. Heat, humidity, and a long work day left me pretty punchy last night. I now have a story here.

You'll also notice I have graphed my data in a spreadsheet. I did this because I run waaay too long in one session to get a useable graph in AE. I just like to see one event all alone.