[QUOTE=Ford_Six;12061990]The problem with urban living is the infrastructure to support it. You need power, water, and food supplied to the living areas, and waste taken away. This means additional areas to produce the power, food and water supply plus roads to get it to the living areas. It would be best to go with a commune sort of system, several families living on a large farm with the ability to be self sufficient. There is an enormous amount of labor involved in living without a supporting infrastructure, but by that point there will be no real distractions like TV and internet.
As for me, I have a very good large garden tractor, and have been collecting implements for it. I am putting in a garden 100' square for next year, just above a seasonal stream that will supply the irrigation water for it. I am going to put in a 1000gallon+ tank uphill from the garden to hold the water, and pump it up there when available from the stream. I have the space to store the food that this garden produces, and most importantly the willpower to do this. It'll take a lot of time and hard work, but will be worth it in the end.
As an observation, voluntary thread modification is preferred over forced or moderator modification, but the best way is to just not post political stuff here. Pony up the $20 for a year in the club, and as a bonus the ads go away. Then, you can post all the political stuff you want there. I think this thread has plenty of potential without political stuff.[/QUOTE

The water portion of the equation is interesting. We have room for a cistern or tank of some kind and I have been thinking about that given the increasing heat and droughts. Gardens in Tennessee clay can be a rough go, so I am not so sure the amount of work invested would give a reasonable return in food stuffs.

It would be kind of funny if the switch to green power became a necessity rather than an option.

Are you planning on a large generator as a backup power source (until it becomes the primary power source)?

Steve

 

One thing I hear implied in some of the meltdown theories is that the good guys will win and then everyone can come out of their bunkers and we can start over. I think that is somewhat naive.

 

Hard to know how it will play out.

Steve

 

I'm not convinced the societal meltdown is inevitable. Not yet. I think some of the CRISES I mentioned earlier are inevitable....But if changes are made soon, the end game won't happen.

Be prepared as best you can. That's NOT hunkering down. It's just plain, good common sense. Our grandparents did it, THAT'S for sure. Remember root cellars, stored fuel, and shelves literally full of home-canned foods? More people grew food back then, home remedies were more widely known, and skills like sewing were widespread.

(oh yeah....and the means to defend your preparedness)

If you aren't personally prepared, you won't be there to wage any kind of fight over the country......or whatever it is that pops out on the other end of a meltdown......

 

The part I end up sucking air on is how to help bring about change. I don't see it coming from the voting booth. Last week I listened to a speech by the presidential candidate from the Green Party which is Ralph Nader's party, but I don't see how they can get any traction and the cost of a mounting a third party is astronomical. And I can't see a way to step around the top 1% and they are sure not going to go along with anything that makes them step back.

Historically I can't think of a model which managed to make a change in this type of situation. At the very least, it seems to me it will take some folks in the streets and it's hard to do that and keep out the riff-raff and attention seekers. Although the Occupy Wall Streeters took a lot of heat, at least they were trying to do something.

Steve

 

That's the second person to think this is the place to go political. What does the the present White House occupiers have to do with this thread? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!! Frapper... And Steve was right to scold Moto Mel AND YOU! At least Moto Mel had enough respect to delete his comments to let this thread live, you don't!
This country is very resilient and patient when it comes to matters that lead to a possible meltdown. We have very strong hopes that we can not fail and we will do all that we can to prevent that from happening. What ever that takes! But if it would happen, I think that our friends/family and neighbors will band together to help each other out.
A couple weeks ago, there were 91 MPH winds that tore through Ft. Wayne felling over 500 trees. Some people were without electricity for over a week in the nearly 100 degree heat. Boy, did tempers fly with the electric company for not restoring power fast enough. But, some neighbors helped other neighbors clear brush or share generators. The American Spirit is still there!
Kudos to both of the Steves that posted here. You have given others ideas to get ready in any type of emergency. It won't be so bad to live like Amish for a while. Or consider it protracted camping!
Ah yes, the 99%. They were trying to do something but what? Destroy this country? I won't give the protesters much credit unless they try to better others before themselves. Their effort was laughable.

 

Greed and politics is what has brought our country to this stage of self destruction. A few people here and elsewhere are starting to realize what the Minutemen were trying to tell us in the early '60s. They got a lot of heat from all areas of the D.C. power structure and were finally driven into hiding or at least softening their speech and stance on the situation as they saw it progressing back then. They told us that this day would come and now the beginnings of it is really here. I'm afraid it will get much worse before it gets better.

"Our safety, our liberty, depends upon preserving the Constitution of the United States as our fathers made it inviolate. The people of the United States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts; not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution." -- Abraham Lincoln

 

Will Hunting had it right 14 years ago - YouTube

 

I'd like to think it was more of a gentle reminder.....I've got no problem at all with Moto Mel, and hope he didn't take it personally......

Rest of your post.....Yes. The MORE self-reliant and 'functional' you and your family and your GROUP of families are......The less you'll need outside assistance. And the better shape you'll be in not only to fight-the-fight (if necessary), but to rebuild afterwards.

You mentioned the Amish. I'll have to double-check, but I think that's also a kinda/sorta MO of traditional Mormonism........Keeping a year's worth of food on-hand for rough times.....

Keep in mind (all), 'rough times' can be caused by Man OR by nature......

 

Washington will be no help if things get bad. I believe people who live on farms will have it better because they know how to raise food. My family has raised crops & canned them all my life. I have a huge amount stored now & will add to it again this year. We have lots of frozen stuff too. It might ruin if power becomes unavailable. We have a few generators but fuel may become hard to find. I hope we don't go into country wide economic bust but I think I can survive one. It will be tough. Who knows? During the last one many more people knew how to live off the land. Cities will have it rough. They might try to rob the farmers.

 

What really concerns me is that some one may do something stupid and ruin it for us all. WW1 was begun with 2 assassinations and a few gunshots. At the present time, it could happen here. I think that the talking heads are fear mongering but that is how they get paid. I have seen it on the web and on TV. I thought the momentum would rise with the Occupiers but they didn't seem to have effective leadership or actually know what they were protesting about. I have seen racial divides rise and fall. I have seen class divides rise and fall. I think that is a good sign that nothing will bring us down......yet.

I do have a small supply of arms and ammo. I froze some veggies last year. Good thing, as we have a drought this year. So, I will be able to get thru next year. I also bought 3 cases of canned chicken and beef.

I was talking to a guy at work, who is only 25, and he was stocking up on food, guns and ammo. He said he could see difficult times ahead. Very perceptive with being only 25 years old!

Lariat97 is spot on when he said that D.C. will be no help. I don't think there will be any help on a state level either. The aftermath of Katrina comes to mind.

 

On the surface this sounds like an advantage but crops don't grow overnight and they tend to like the wide open spaces. Getting it from the ground to the cupboard might be difficult with roving bands of armed, hungry, thugs helping themselves to your food supply.


This might help you keep what's in your cupboard but it depends on how hungry and how desperate the thugs are. Initially having something due to good preperation & planning is a good thing but being able to hang onto it at all costs is something entirely different.

Sorry but I think all doomsday scenarios end in doom. There are no winners but that doesn't mean we aren't headed there as fast as we can.

 

Like taking a dump on a police cruiser? I don't think OWS and I share any common ground on the issues or the solutions.

 

It's really hard to know how things might play out. Things might be short lived and, in that case preparedness would be useful. That is about as optimistic as I am able to be.

Steve

 

OWS & I have no common ground. They are the people we will be fighting for our food if things get bad. How many of those freaks know how to survive if things go to crap?