Can anyone confirm if FORD E-Series manual called for R&R the 5.4 motor just to do head gasket?

Point was, when required, modular motors "will absolutely be" MORE "difficult to remove" contradicting andrewzx92000's claim "The 2002 vans engine comes out a lot easier than the early 90's vans."

Time is on my side regarding search for "ideal "needle in a haystack" sliding door" Club Wagon. My '92 Chateau, sold in OH, w/5.0 & "a quarter million miles" w/o heads ever off is getting rusty, but still runs just fine. My F150 just turned 35,000 miles. Mostly drive car that gets 44-46 MPG.

Plan was to replace '92 w/a rustfree similar Chateau & cannibalize the Rust Belt victim myself, NOT "just sell it for parts". Minty 4X4 pickup has been a diversion. Looking for deal on loaded E150 '92-'07 Wagon w/sliding side door & no rust, that needs some TLC, to drive less than 5000 miles/year. Price range is flexible, NOT set. For me "ideal" goes from nonrunning, blown motor/tranny, diamond in the rough, to bargain on exc. cond. Club Wagon driven by Little Old Lady. NOT looking at 5.8 (or 5.4) either. Must be 5.0 (or rare 4.9) or ideally, an '04-'07, w/4.6, to get rear disc brakes. Don't like new grille yet.

Like the 4.6 just fine, even more learning heads come off in place on E-Series, unlike the unfortunate F150 design.

 

Hi CW...one note is that in 2007, the E150, which I assume is what you want, went from ~7000 to 8500 lbs GVW and essentially became a 250, 8 lug wheels, more weight, bigger axles, etc. '04 went to 16" wheels to accommodate rear discs, but stayed with 5 lugs and P rated tires. So if you want the P rated tires and trappings of the traditional E150, you might cut one year off your search and go pre-2007. I think the common Ford van conversions all but went away in 2007 as well. People want more of a car-like ride in something marketed as a passenger limo type vehicle.

I like the 4.6 for the best fuel economy in a big van if you're not carrying or towing a lot of weight.

George

 

No need to "assume" what I want, or speculate it won't turn up until after I'm buried. Posted that I'm "Looking for deal on loaded E150 '92-'07 Wagon w/sliding side door & no rust".

FYI, also NOT looking at any of "the common Ford van conversions" either. Especially 2007 & up. Still really don't like conversion vans.

Do entertain an alternative "ideal". Acquiring a loaded E150 cargo van w/sliding side door & building it into a Steel Tent. Kinda like my 1st Econoline back in '75. Would transplant my '92 Chateau's exceptional condition interior.

Wasn't "the best fuel economy in" these FORD E-Series already discussed?

Thought the general consensus was that the 4.2L V6 does actually provide "the best fuel economy" BUT it's a lack luster achievement of 1-2 MPG tops?

Let's revisit the 4.2L V6?

 

My 1999 5.4 E150 had bad head gaskets, oil leak. the Ford dealer I bought it from took the heads off with the motor in the van, replaced the gaskets and put it all back together under warranty, it can be done, pig of a job, must have new head bolts.
My 1992 E150 with a 5.0 The manual said there would be 36 hours to get the motor out.
My 1999 with the 5.4 said that it would be 14 hours to remove the engine.
I think from looking that the cavity it appears bigger on the later vans, but I could be wrong.
AE

 

4.6 gets better mileage, both EPA and real life, than the 4.2 in E vans. Period. And the 4.2 is completely over its little head in the big box in terms of power. But probably really easy to remove given its small size. My E150 has averaged over 16 mpg over its entire 104k miles, and can get 17-18.5 on the road with a 4.6. I have never seen ANY other full size van with better documented long term mileage. (2002, 4R70W, 3.55 axle, 4.6 PI.) And I do not drive slow, and I do drive a lot of city miles.

You said 92-07 E150; the 07 E150 is NOT the same class of vehicle as the 92-06 E150; if you are interested in an 07 E150 you might as well expand your search to E250's for all those years. But those add weight, cut gas mileage, etc. Again, the 2007+ E150 is NOT an E150 but basically an 8 lug E250 with the axles, suspension, truck tires, ride height, etc. that the 250 has always had.

Never said you should like conversions; merely noted that converters stopped doing Fords in 2007 and later because they went HD with 65-80 lb tires and the aforementioned "renamed E250" basis. Van conversions have been sold as tall limos, and a trucklike ride detracts...

Good luck, and have a great day. Maybe try to interject a bit of gratitude or happiness into your posts--it goes a long way

George

 

I hate when we fight!

Some pertinent reading about pulling the heads:https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...the-heads.html

Relative posts: 25, 30 & 32:

 

I don't see how removing the head on a 5.4L in the van would be easier than pulling the motor and working on a stand. Obviously the guys that reference all their info by what the book says haven't really worked on many things. Use your eyeballs and look under the hood. Does it look like you have room to get the head off the way the 5.4L is packed in there? Maybe after hours and hours of disassembly, but by then you could have had the engine out.

I'd even be so bold as to say it would be easier to remove the front fenders, hood, unbolt the core support and CUT the front inner structure off the van to get to the engine. 10 min with a welder would stick it back together. Might not be the sanest approach, but I think you'd lose all your sanity after trying to pop a head off in the van!

Just to replace the plugs on my 5.4L and it took several hours. First you pull all the intake plastic off to get the coil packs. Pulling the coil packs is a pain and then you need to move the fuel rail out of the way on each side. Then reach way down in the head to plugs. Also you need to work from the front as well as thru the engine cover. Do you know how much of a pain it would be to get the driver's side head off in the van??

This guy doesn't know the difference between a 4.2L and a 5.4L. How is he going to get a head off?? At least you would have an "easier" time with the 4.2L as it is tiny compared to the 5.4L. And if you managed to get a head off how many people have the tools to keep the 800 ft long timing chain in time and back off the all the chain tensioners...in the van?? It would be a nightmare of a job.

Not to mention, what is a "fluttering" noise? Is there a butterfly stuck in the engine compartment? Good luck on that one.

Not to be a dick, but come on.

Josh Quick
Quick Speed Shop

 

Well Josh i can understand your frustration for having to read thru the whole post only to find out that its filled with confusion everywhere. Im really sorry to have ruined your ford forum exspreiance and will do my best to properly post from now on.

Let me see if I can exsplain to you my situation. I have been working on bikes for awhile now and have decided to do electrical being as it pays quite a bit more than fixing some guys harley and hearing him bitch about how much it cost or how they watched sons of anarchy and have come to the realization that they are bikers but dont want to ride if its rainy as to get there chrome wet. Basicly what im sayin here is that I am mechaniclly inclined so I dont just go around changin parts. so while pulling a motor out of a van is something I havent done before or have any clue how to do I know when to say "I dont need to be ****ing with it".

Now, I just got with my electrical company and the guy that was the mechanic before me worked for ford and done all kinds of work on vans and **** before so he has pulled out a motor and knows what is in these vans and how they run...........He quit (being as they heard I work on stuff they atomaticly assume I know what the **** is going on with these vans) and I had two days to sit in the shop and go over Van maintnace, where we get parts (4 differant places cause of priceing), common van issues, how to use the computer and not erase the van memory, etc. (you get the point). I had talked with this guy a few times about the vans. When he left I was dropped in the middle of somewhere around maintaing 50+ vans in two states ranging from 1998-2010 year modles. Now I dunno how many differant motors, that is but its a few im sure. The average van gets oil changes done every month usually so they put miles on them, Also keep in mind that I have no ****ing idea what is in these vans or what alot of common issues happen. I also dont have any manuals to show me this (besides haynes which is like not having one), I have no clue where to find refferance guides, parts breakdowns, wiring schematics, etc. Im still learning this. Now since I posted this I have fixed somewhere around 20 vans I think.When he first left 8 were sitting in the parking lot and there was no sign saying what was wrong with them. Thats anywhere from Motor noise, tun signal issues, alternator, starter, oil changes, and some other **** I cant remember. I have started keeping track of repairs and van info on the computer to erase situations like this when im working on something. so for staying only 4hrs of overtime to keep cost down and working on **** iv never touched or delt with before im handleing it like a boss.

Now on to the confusion. I have.........had, I had 4 sheets of paper with every van number, vin, size of motor, year and who drives it at the shop. What are the odds the sheets were not correct with the info on them and I had to go to every van and verify the info on the sheet? If you said yes then you are correct. The sheets were completely off and are in procces of being fixed to avoid mistakes like this from happening. My bad everyone and thankyou for your patience and help, wont happen again. It is my fault for not having the van right in front of me and going off what the last guy "said" and what the sheets "said". I know better than doing that but if it was somnething that needed to go to a shop then I would have been more than happy to send it there to free up some time and get it done. I havent posted anymore on it cause when I posted this issue I kept getting the wrong info about everything so i decided to wait and save myself any further embarssement on the post. So now im caught up on most of the van issues and will get to the van shortly with accurate info on what it is and whats going on.

Fluttering, yes I guess its kinda like a butterfly but a really big one, really really big one. I was reffering to a sound like an intake leak makes. Along with the spark knock it had in it I could be wrong but I dunno yet I have somethings I need to do to it before I comeback to address the issues.


Mike
Mikes half *** mechanic shop

 

Actually Mike sounds to me like you've got it all quite together!


Mike don't let one or two contentious or self-righteous overly opinionated posts or replies ruin FTE's van forums for you----despite the differing POV's about what could or should be done there's wealth of hands on practical experience here. After a bit of time here its easy to spot those who actually turn a wrench on something, just as easy to see who is quick to cite generic or factory manuals. While those might be one reference source time-after-time they've proven to be quite out of step with how things are routinely done in the real world.

I'm all for reading up on something but when seeking advice I want the skinned knuckled, ground-in dirt guy who does more than ponder how they'd do a repair. I'll again cite the Ford OEM manual procedure on repairing/replacing an E-Series heater core or blend door!

I've found posting my mechanical related questions in the appropriate forum, in this case the V8 Modular Motor forums are quite a bit more helpful. It seems those posting there are quite more experienced with these engines. Despite the overwhelming F-Series population there most have worked on the E-Series and can speak from experience---or give you one great WAG that's probably spot on. We've got some very wise, knowledgeable and experienced mechanical guys here in the Van forums but they're outnumbered by the "catalog mechanics" now and again.

You've inherited a mess of a mess and hopefully, maybe you can get some valuable real-world info here. I honestly believe most who reply are genuinely trying to help even if the occasional hot-under-the-collar post seems to defy that notion. We have to learn who knows what and who to thank for their participation but not pay a lot of attention. Its all just a part of any internet forum...........!

PS: Whatever comes from your repair if you'd post a follow up it'd be helpful to someone down the road I'm sure, especially if its something you've actually undertaken on your own!

 

Mike...I agree with JWA here. Welcome to the forum, and like many other places, take away from here what will help you and ignore the rest. Most of the folks here, like JWA says, are legitimately nice guys who enjoy shooting the bull, but sometimes you get a response from someone which might not be phrased in the nicest way--that person may just be having a bad day or something. Again, just ignore a post that does not help, and move to another post that will help you. And consider the various engine forums for some more in depth info on the motors that are common to lots of trucks and vans.

George

 

Mike,

Sorry to be a jerk with my above comments. As with most forums half the info is bogus and the most of the other half gets so convoluted as it runs through the ringer of nonsensical bs it's hard to follow what actually is going on. Your original posts made it sound like you didn't know what was going on, but thanks to your above posts I see that you do. Good luck with your vans. I will read better and not jump in so fast in the future.

Josh Quick
Quick Speed Shop

 

Thanks for the help and advice guys. This place is a gold mine of info its just mainly learning where to find the info you need. Iv been into the engine forums a bit looking for a few things and have ran into some great people already. I will be getting back to the van in the near future but have to address the driving and speedo issue with it first before jumping into other things that need addressed. I do however have at my grasp a PDS which from what iv seen is the samething as harleys digital tech (computer program you plug into the bike). I seen it has a training mode on it so I will figure that one out tonight. I dont know much about speedos for vans but im sure I will in the next week or two. lol

MRAMC1, I completely understand where you are coming from. Its like when someone brings you their bike and the first thing out of there mouth is "my buddy said". After you find the problem and tell them the price (its harley so its not cheap) then they tell you "my buddy said it shouldnt cost that much". Apparently everyones buddy is smarter then the guy working on it,. hahaha. The only two things more frustraighting than dealing with someone who doesnt have all the info on what they are working on is 1.someone who has no mechanical clue about how anything works and 2. someone who has a buddy that has done it a million times before and always ends up in someone fixing his mistakes in the end. No hard feelings.

Mike

 

Mike, I too have what I would describe as a fluttering with my 02 e350. I have no idea what else to call it and have never had another engine do it. Mine does it on startup, when the engine revs to the moon, as I describe it, because I've also never had another vehicle but this van rev up so high on startup, it's like I have it floored and my foot isn't on the pedal at all. This fluttering sounds pretty much like something large like, perhaps, a piston, has come unattatched at high rpm and is about to fly through the side of the motor. Mine also does it on the highway coming out of passing gear. Here's the scenario- you change lanes to pass, the van downshifts in to passing gear and you pass, and then just as it revs out of that gear and you are getting back in to your lane or whatever and the van is holding that gear about to upshift, you get a God awful, rattling, fluttering, piston slap, engine coming apart sound, but it never does. It falls into a comfortable gear and goes on up the road.
Am I crazy?
I have read more posts on piston slap than I ever cared to and have found no answers that make sense.