Greetings fellow van owners. I have found myself in a big quandry. I purchased a new E-150 cargo van in '01. It was ordered with a trailer-towing package, most options and has the infamous 5.4L engine. At 90K miles I had the plugs replaced by an independent mechanic (Ford recommended this be done at 100K). I was not told about the coils, one for each plug. Had I known, I would have had these replaced along with the plugs.

Since that tune-up, I have had to replace 3 coils and the right bank O2 sensor. Since this is a van, naturally the labor costs are about double what a mechanic would charge to work on a pick-up. Most recently, I replaced the #4 coil and the mechanic mentioned that many 5.4L engines are either blowing plugs and/or the plugs are breaking-off when being removed....either way, a very costly repair threat.

I have spent a lot of time researching this problem online and am amazed that Ford is denying the problem (caused by too few threads on the aluminum head) while thousands of Ford owners are stuck with the problem. A problem so bad, and well-known, that Champion now has a one-piece spark plug made especially for the Ford V-8 and V-10 motors. This, in addition to special insert kits and plug-tip recovery tool kits being sold to mechanics to avoid replacing the head after a plug blows.

I guess so far I have been lucky, but am scared to death that I might suffer a blown plug and face a huge repair bill that I simply cannot afford. The retail value of this very clean van is now at $5K, and I might have to take less if a potential buyer has heard of this problem, so my question to this group is this,.... is there a way to prevent a future problem?

To replace the remaining 5 OEM coils and install the 8 new Champion plugs will cost me about $900.. I would find a way to do this if I knew that I would not have to worry about these parts for another 60 - 80K miles. Or, perhaps since the van is in otherwise excellent condition, should I sell it now, and avoid Ford products until I can trust them to stand by their vehicles, and start building them right?

 

Champion plugs have nothing to do with your engine; the one piece Champions are the cure for the 3 valve 5.4 in 2004 and later pickups.

Fords will last as long as anything. Check this website:

Million Mile Van

On the message board attached to his site, he admits blowing a spark plug at 1,041,500 miles.

My previous van, before my 2002 E150 with 4.6, was a GMC Savana which went through 7 valve bodies and 3 transmissions as well as numerous other failures by the time I ditched it at 66k miles. 2 fuel pumps, a starter, an alternator, and the Dexcool antifreeze dissolved the intake manifold gaskets at 65k miles.

George

 

George,

All of those problems with a Savannah with only 66,000 miles?
Also, are you saying the '01 5.4 is not a 3 valve engine? Doesn't it still have a thin aluminum head?

 

There are 2 separate plug problems. The 4.6, 5.4, and 6.8 engines with 2 valves had the inadequate plug threads and would spit plugs. I believe this applied from 1997 until about 2005, and was worse with the 5.4 and 6.8 (V10). There are thread repair kits out there although you don't want to have to deal with this. When plugs are changed, they must be torqued properly, not too much, and not too little. There are millions of these engines out there, and a relatively small percentage blow plugs...the others just keep running day in and day out. The mods are really tight motors.

The redesigned 5.4 3 valve engine had a LONG nonthreaded portion of the plug that gets stuck in the heads and needs special tools for removal. This began in 2004 and was fixed by '06. But they don't use the 3 valve engines in vans. This is where the 1 piece Champ plugs work out. I would not put Champs in your engine...I have had rotten luck with Champions over the years. (I have had excellent performance from Motorcraft in Fords, NGK's in my BMW and other imports.)

My Savana was a 1996, bought new by me, and was the Van from Hell. I had a GM warranty thru 60k miles, and when the warranty ended, it seemed to give me one catastrophic problem every month or two. Of the 40 or so vehicles I have owned, it is the only one I traded in to a dealer, because I couldn't look someone in the eye and sell it to them. In addition to these problems, it popped oxy sensors like popcorn, and had numerous other interior trim and electrical problems. I swore I'd never buy GM again.

My E150 has not been perfect and in fact, I got a new pair of cylinder heads under warranty because the early 4.6 PI heads in Romeo engines had bad cooling at the rear of the cylinders. So I got a new pair of heads in 2006 or so, and I have the ones with more plug threads. I fortunately had only a $100 warranty deductible to pay on this job, and the van never broke or left me stranded. Now at 80k miles. I won't see a million, but it'll go a long way.

George

 

> should I sell it now

It is over 6 years old, we are in the middle of a recession, and not too many people have $5k laying around. The $5k price is based on used car dealer prices of what it "should" be for a private party. If you look and track what sells on E-Bay and CL, it will be more like 2k. I do not know what source you used to base a price, I am using what I see selling on CL.

Unless you are going to pay all cash for the next one, I would keep it. Even if you have to replace heads and such, a new van payment would be $4500 a year min.

The problem is even with the spark plug problems, the Ford van is still the best out there.

 

I would like to thank you and George for your input.

You are correct that the selling price of $5,000. is the retail price if sold to a private party. This is a cargo van but was never used as such. I primarily use it as a means to tow a travel trailer and for my photography and video production business. It has never been in an accident and the black color shines like new. I have all the maintenance receipts and even though it has 115,000 miles, it looks and runs like new (except for the occasional coil replacement). The interior is completely insulated with styrofoam and reflectix, covered with black vinyl carpeting. The floor is Armstrong padded wood grain laminate.

I really don't want to sell the van, and you are correct regarding the high cost of purchasing a new one and suffering the immediate depreciation and monthly payment costs. Your input has made me feel more confident that, with due diligence, the van should last many more years. I once purchased 2, late 60's E-150's that were former phone company fleet trucks with high miles, and used them in my alarm business. They were repainted and ran several years without any mechanical work required.

I later owned 2 more Econolines, also without any maintenance problems. I guess I am concerned for all of the 5.4L owners who are having plug problems at great personal expense, simply because Ford will not admit that they have a design defect. Perhaps it will take a class-action lawsuit and bad publicity to force them to own-up to the mess they have created. Yes, millions of Ford owners have not had any of these spark plug problems, but thousands of owners have , and not through any fault of theirs. Like the current Toyota situation, auto companies must be held accountable for their mistakes if they expect to earn the trust of the public.

 

The 5.4/6.8 plug problems are an issue for some owners, but thinking that anyone will get Ford to do some kind of global "fix" is wishful thinking. All the the plug-blowing engines are long out of warranty (with the possible exception of some extended warranties). There is a repair approach that does not involve a new cylinder head with the engine in place, so just accept that risk. The guy with the million mile van just keeps on driving his. Yes, there may be thousands of these engines with problems, but I think I remember the Romeo plant noting it had built its three millionth modular V8.

As for the stuck-plug 3-valve engines, again, these will all be out of warranty by the time the 100k plug change interval comes up, and dealers/independent shops will get more fluent with removal techniques.

Virtually every auto maker has had some number of design flaws, like the Chrysler 2.7 and Toyota 2.2/3.0 engines being oil sludgers, many other cars with engine and transmission flaws, cars with premature body rust. You take your chances and drive what makes sense. Even if you blew up your van's engine, it would be worth replacing the engine and driving it another 100k miles instead of buying something new and eating the depreciation that you'd suffer on that in the first 100k.

Likewise, your family or mine might have a predisposition to heart attacks, diabetes, arthritis, etc. So we take care of ourselves but still have to deal with risks. Nothing is ever perfect. Ford vans are the best vans out there IMO....

George

 

I have a 99 E-350 Ext Super Duty XLT 15 passenger with the 5.4, it currently has 133,000 miles on it, at 97,000 I had the Ford dealer change the plugs, when cool outside it would quit after starting it about twice. Years ago when replacing plugs, coil/plug boots weren't available without buying a new coil, forcing you to reuse them, end result was, shortly after changing, the weakened boot would crack, causing the spark to arch and burn out the coil pack. I've never heard good stories of people using anything other than Motorcraft plugs in the modular engines, they were designed for each other. I have replaced my o2 sensors, DPFE, and AIC myself, they were easy to get, they're right at the dog house inside, other than rear axle seals, alternator and warped front rotors I've not had any other issues. As for the head problems, they were the first series of PI heads, which in my understanding, my 99 does not have, good deal because they had head gasket issues causing rear oil leaks and only 3 threads holding the plugs in. Vans are always behind the trucks, the trucks get the new, updated engines, the vans follow one or two years later, why, because the vans are hard to work on and big commercial sellers, they don't wanna mess up a good thing, but the 6.0 lost them the ambulance contracts.
I use a wheelchair, so to simply replace my van means moving a wheelchair lift, power seat base and setting up power doors, quite an expense to start over.

 

This has been discussed before. I'd thought FORD introduced improved heads for '01. Its pretty clear to me the courts don't see the plugs popping out as a B&W issue. From what I've read no "class-action lawsuit" is likely to ever prevail.

If you try to winnow the relatively small number of claims resulting solely from manufacturing defects, out of a much larger number of stripped threads as a result of ignoring recommended procedures, you get an idea of how muddy the waters become. Generations of backyard & pro mechanics were accustomed to heavy iron heads that weren't sensitive to tightening the snot out of plugs. For some, following recommended torque specs, or using a torque wrench, was not part of changing plugs. When FORD introduced aluminum heads old habits became responsible for many of the easily stripped threads. Some dealerships also overtightened the vulnerable plug threads. Even read there's evidence a fair number of plugs were overtightened, fracturing threads, when installed at the factory. The difficulty separating untouched plugs that blew out, from those that were overtightened in the field is essentially insurmountable.

This mess could never take off (no pun intended) like the Toyota sudden acceleration issue. Problems that are likely to physically injure people tend to rank higher than problems that injure bank accounts.

Most FTE contributors seem to prefer what videopro192 calls "the infamous 5.4L engine". Anything can happen to a 10 YO engine. A friend's 5.4 dropped a valve. Nothing to be "scared to death" about. I see newer vehicles 'on the hook' all the time.

 

To Club Wagon,

You make a good point...is the plug problem partially due to improper plug replacement?

With all due respect, I do not believe this is the real issue here. After much research on numerous group sites and web sites that speak to this situation, I still believe without a doubt that this IS a Ford problem.

It has been documented that the 3-valve heads (in question) are too thin to properly secure a plug, by providing only 3 to 4 threads.

It is a fact that many plug blow-outs have occurred in fairly new vehicles that have the original factory plugs. This is not due to owner neglect. Should new owners have to demand the plugs be re-torqued BEFORE they take delivery of their Ford product? How would they know to do this?

It is a fact that Ford service managers have denied or downplayed the frequency of the defect, often stating that they have "never seen this before" when they know full well there is a defect. I have had several former Ford mechanics tell me they have seen this happen at their dealerships.

It is a fact that Ford could have sent owners and private mechanics a "head's up" notice to be sure to properly remove and torque the new plugs, leaving thousands of owners to have plugs break-off and/or blow out.

It is a documented fact that some 5.4L owners have had a plug blow-out resulting in an engine fire when the unburned gas ignited as it was forced-out of the open hole. This speaks to public safety and the real prospect of loss of life. Imagine the possibility of a woman driver on an interstate with kids in the back suddenly hearing the chatter and bang of a plug blowing out, followed by smoke, trying to get her disabled vehicle safely off the road, and getting her kids out of the vehicle. Yes, this is a mechanical failure that could happen to anyone at any time, but this is a "preventable" event.

It is a fact that as more new and used car dealers (besides Ford) become aware of this situation, they have lowered the trade-in values of Ford vehicles prone to have this problem, and will not warranty the vehicle for this type of failure when resold. Just because a Ford vehicle has 60 to 100 thousand miles on the odometer is no reason to dump it and take a loss. I have heard from Ford owners who have paid as much as $4,000. to have their vehicle repaired (and replacing the heads on a Van is no easy task).

Finally, it is a fact that Ford is well aware of this problem and has made modifications in an attempt to correct them, however there are 2009 models being towed in to dealerships because of broken spark plug tips that drop into the cylinder. Ford has a special tool to recover this tip, and private mechanics are stocking-up on similar tools and helicoil inserts. I predict that head problems will continue to cost Ford owners millions of dollars until their genius' come up with a better design.

If this, as some say, is "a problem that affects a small percentage of Ford owners"...try telling that tidbit to an owner who just shelled-out thousands of dollars for a preventable repair.

 

I Have A 2002 E350 Super Duty cargo with the 5.4L Triton engine.I have only replaced one sparkplug since new and only because the #6 coil went south. I am approaching 179000 miles .This van has been great still runs strong and is extremely quiet.I read that a lot of the trucks have a worser time with the spark plug issue ,because of rain getting in at the top of the hood and running down in around the sparkplugs thus rusting them and making them seize. The vans engine is somewhat protected being mostly under the dash and inside the van.My two cents worth ,who needs a new van payment.

 

I guess the original motorcraft plugs would be more likely to sieze when compared to the platinum plugs. Mine (original plugs) were replaced at 90,000 mi. and the independent mechanic did not comment on any removal difficulty. Had I known about the impending coil problems, I would have had those replaced as well. I hope and pray that he torqued the plugs properly.

When I can afford it, I will have the remaining factory coils replaced along with the plugs, and will make sure they are torqued to spec.

My daughter's family owns a 2008 f-150 with the 5.4 motor that they are selling to get a smaller car (not because I told them of the problem). I should point out that we are still in a recession and many families are forced to cut-back in different ways. A huge repair bill would be a real set-back for these good folks.

By the time my present coil problem is resolved, I will have spent over $1300. on the replacement of 1-plug, 3 coils and 1 O2 sensor ($250. for parts, $1,100. for labor!) One Ford dealer charged me $125. an hour just to replace a plug and a coil ($101. for the coil)! I was on a trip and had no other option.

I have resolved that I will keep my van for another 10 years, and will never use a dealership for repairs. One lesson learned is fix-it BEFORE it breaks, so my plan calls for scheduled replacement of hoses, belts and engine components at the first sign of aging or wear, and build a cash reserve of $2000. or more by making half my original van payments every month.

It's either that or buy a 60's classic truck that I can work on myself! ;-)

 

> It is a fact that Ford service managers have denied or downplayed
> the frequency of the defect

If you have ever seen what it takes to get the heads off a 5.4 in a van and how much it pays, you would understand it. If you believed in lying to CYA.

They know it is a problem, when you have a recommended procedure of vacuuming out the holes and letting KROIL soak in, you know you have a design problem.


> One lesson learned is fix-it BEFORE it breaks,

The A4LD transmission lasted 170k+ miles in my Aerostar under severe service because I changed the fluid every 20-30k.

I saw a repair done to the Aerostar AWD front axle dana 28 while working at a Ford dealer and determined my changing the fluid out at the same time I did the tranny fluid was a worth while investment\ vs. lifetime.

I would literally change all the fluid out on the whole vehicle every 20-30K. I think doing this to brake fluid too helps prevent brake cyl. and caliper failures too. (I admit getting lazy on the brake fluid).

Same thing with people saying you don't need the oil change every 3k because the book says 7k. Probably true if you can test your own oil. How much does oil and a filter cost vs. a new engine.

One thing I have found that makes starters and alternators last longer/life time is to frequently test the battery and/or replace it every 2-3 years.

I do plugs before the OEM warranty is up, usually at 30K, even on 100K plugs so any factory gaffs, like being cross threaded can be done under warranty. Plus, I put anti-seize on the threads (though Ford says not to on the defective 5.4s).

By proper preventive care, the only things in 179k or so miles that went wrong on my new Aerostar was the 1st one, the transmission. I just did fluid changes, shocks, brake pads, and plugs.

 

You still have it wrong. The 1997-2004 TWO (2) valve heads like the one in your van were the ones with the plugs that would blow out, the heads having only 3-4 threads. The plugs are not difficult to remove. If they are overtorqued when replaced, the threads can be compromised, or if they are put in too loose, the plugs can vibrate and blow out.

It sounds like you've just become aware of this issue. I knew about it in March 2003 when I bought my van, so it is not new except to you. Fortunately, the 4.6 is less prone to the problem (plus I have the newer heads on mine, so I got lucky). There are a TON of cop cars, taxis, limos, etc that have gone hundreds of thousands of miles with 4.6's with the 3-4 threads holding the plugs in. Basically, despite this potential problem, the mod motors are among the best V8's ever built in terms of tightness and longevity.

The 2004 and later 3 valve engines in pickups--NOT in vans--got the stuck plugs as their problem. Totally different heads, totally different designs, and I have said that the cylinder head engineers at Ford are hopefully walking the streets these days. They should be assigned to Ford dealers for a lifetime of removing and replacing plugs...

But no way is Ford going to warranty this issue. If the million mile van guy can go 1,014,000 miles before blowing ONE plug, then having it fixed and continuing to still drive the van, how bad do you really think the problem is in terms of affecting the service you can get from a 5.4 engine?

The 60's truck will have lousy brakes, no safety equipment, and will be way less reliable than your van. The ugly part of the "good old days" fades in memories, but I've owned enough 60's vehicles to know that I don't really want to be driving one these days on a daily basis.

George

 

I do know that the plug problem has been around for over a decade, but was not pleased to learn that my '01 van is one that has the "family history" of launching spark plugs.

I was not aware that after '04, the problems did not carry-over to the vans from the pick-ups, so this information is new news to me.

Two things I am sure about.
1. My van's engine has an existing thin head that requires special attention to plug installation, and 2. Ford still has a problem with it's motors that it will not acknowledge and that is inexcusable.

My comment about buying a '60's vehicle was just a wee bit of a sarcasm. I love the van, and know it will last a long time with due care (not factoring in the head situation). The "million-mile" van is an exception, not the rule. It's good to know that there are a few vehicles that actually last that long, but this speaks more to the owner's devotion to maintenance and repair rather than the ability of a manufacturer to consistently build million-mile vehicles.

Wouldn't it be great if Ford revived the venerable panel truck? At least it would be easier to work on.