OptiLube XPD
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Joined: Aug 2003
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From: Isanti, MN
Great discussion...I use the PM22A...buy it by the gallon...but...the question remains; why do we have to use any of them at all? If Ford had provided a HPF system that reflected the real world fuel quality issues owners face out there every day...this conversation would not have to take place...just sayin...
Peace
Peace
I'm a fan of Power Service myself, but good recent data comparing these additives isn't easy to come by so I tend to keep my mouth shut!
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2011
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From: Stafford Virginia
May I make a suggestion?
Due to water contamination concerns perhaps it would be a good idea to post a separator empty post informing everyone where it is, how to empty, and how often it may need to be emptied. One could use this same thread or start a new one. I would do it but I don't know how to post pictures. Thoughts???
Due to water contamination concerns perhaps it would be a good idea to post a separator empty post informing everyone where it is, how to empty, and how often it may need to be emptied. One could use this same thread or start a new one. I would do it but I don't know how to post pictures. Thoughts???
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Joined: Apr 2009
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You can also turn the question around and ask, why doesn't the refinery companies turn out a product that is more suitable for our needs. European diesel owners have a better fuel available to them then we do. It's a fact that a diesel fuel that's rated 50+ cetane rating burns cleaner then one that's 42 cetane. You need these higher numbers more then ever in colder weather.
Until then, we will need to enhance the fuel quality to ensure our trucks stay running...and I would run additive in any of the three manufacturers trucks. To not do so is too large of a gamble...
Peace
Junior User
Joined: Dec 2011
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Doesn't look like it. "Enhanced water separation" likely means that it contains a demulsifier that would assist your DFCM in doing it's job. Meaning that if you had water in your fuel it should come out when you drain it, and it would also set off the WIF light.
If you have water in there, and the WIF light comes on that means that your additive is helping protect your engine. This is a GOOD thing in the event you get bad fuel!
If you have water in there, and the WIF light comes on that means that your additive is helping protect your engine. This is a GOOD thing in the event you get bad fuel!
Diesel Fuel Supplement Benefits:
- Prevents fuel gelling in temperatures as low as -40°F.
- Equals performance of a 50/50 blend of No. 2 and No. 1 diesel fuels
- Lowers Cold-Filter Plugging Point (CFPP) as much as 36°F. — keeps fuel-filters from plugging with wax
- Boosts cetane up to 4 numbers for faster cold starts
- Contains Slickdiesel® Lubricator for maximum fuel lubrication — protects pumps and injectors from accelerated wear
- Contains anti-icing additives — protects against fuel-filter icing
- Contains wax anti-settling dispersants — protects against fuel-filter plugging at temperatures below the fuel cloud point
- Disperses water in diesel fuel
- Effective in all diesel fuels, including Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) and biodiesel blends containing up to 20% biodiesel
Not looking for a fight about which additive is good or bad just trying to understand what I can do to help protect my investment the best that I can
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 25,478
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From: Isanti, MN
This is copied off of power sevice site:
Diesel Fuel Supplement Benefits:
Not looking for a fight about which additive is good or bad just trying to understand what I can do to help protect my investment the best that I can
Diesel Fuel Supplement Benefits:
- Prevents fuel gelling in temperatures as low as -40°F.
- Equals performance of a 50/50 blend of No. 2 and No. 1 diesel fuels
- Lowers Cold-Filter Plugging Point (CFPP) as much as 36°F. — keeps fuel-filters from plugging with wax
- Boosts cetane up to 4 numbers for faster cold starts
- Contains Slickdiesel® Lubricator for maximum fuel lubrication — protects pumps and injectors from accelerated wear
- Contains anti-icing additives — protects against fuel-filter icing
- Contains wax anti-settling dispersants — protects against fuel-filter plugging at temperatures below the fuel cloud point
- Disperses water in diesel fuel
- Effective in all diesel fuels, including Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) and biodiesel blends containing up to 20% biodiesel
Not looking for a fight about which additive is good or bad just trying to understand what I can do to help protect my investment the best that I can
Mr. Bowen:
It was a pleasure speaking with you earlier today. I will briefly summarize what we discussed.
Diesel Kleen and Diesel Fuel Supplement are demulsifier/solubilizers. This means that they will not allow the fuel to carry any more water than it naturally would, and they will demulsify excess water. Neither of these products will emulsify free water droplets into the fuel. Diesel fuel typically carries 50-100 ppm water naturally. Biodiesel can carry 10x the amount of water as regular diesel fuel.
With the Spicer test, as we discussed, Power Service chose not to participate in this paid study for several reasons, one of which being that they would not allow us to supply our own additive. As a result, there is question as to whether or not they used our older formulations or the ones containing Slickdiesel lubricator. Furthermore, we have been testing the lubricity of fuels for years, and on the national average we see a 200 micron WSD improvement using Diesel Kleen or Diesel Fuel Supplement at a single treatment ratio. The fuel used in the Spicer test is also not close to indicative of what would be found at a retail pump, as it was a intentionally made to be an off-specification product. Remember that every fuel has slightly different characteristics, and responds differently to additives.
Please do not hesitate to ask if you have additional questions.
Best regards,
It was a pleasure speaking with you earlier today. I will briefly summarize what we discussed.
Diesel Kleen and Diesel Fuel Supplement are demulsifier/solubilizers. This means that they will not allow the fuel to carry any more water than it naturally would, and they will demulsify excess water. Neither of these products will emulsify free water droplets into the fuel. Diesel fuel typically carries 50-100 ppm water naturally. Biodiesel can carry 10x the amount of water as regular diesel fuel.
With the Spicer test, as we discussed, Power Service chose not to participate in this paid study for several reasons, one of which being that they would not allow us to supply our own additive. As a result, there is question as to whether or not they used our older formulations or the ones containing Slickdiesel lubricator. Furthermore, we have been testing the lubricity of fuels for years, and on the national average we see a 200 micron WSD improvement using Diesel Kleen or Diesel Fuel Supplement at a single treatment ratio. The fuel used in the Spicer test is also not close to indicative of what would be found at a retail pump, as it was a intentionally made to be an off-specification product. Remember that every fuel has slightly different characteristics, and responds differently to additives.
Please do not hesitate to ask if you have additional questions.
Best regards,
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Joined: Dec 2008
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I had the same thought about the fuel used in that test. It was basically raw diesel, not what you'd find at the pump. Although it was a good test to see what each additive was able to do with it, it wasn't really indicative of the results any of us would get by adding it to the fuel we purchase at various locations.
I know in the infamous HPFP thread, there is doubt that US diesel has enough lubricity to support long term life of Bosch's components, but there has to be a baseline requirement of lubricity in fuels, as was stated in the original study. Whether its good enough or not for long life of fuel systems, it's the requirement that's being met, oil companies aren't going to bump it up just to be nice- so its up to us as owners and individuals to make the choice. My personal feeling is we have more to worry about the chance of getting a tankful of fuel with a high water content(contaminated with water and the treated with an emulsifier by the distributor, or station owner), than we need to fear about lubricity of fuel from the pump.
Regular use of any additive which, increases lubricity, boosts Cetane, and most importantly Demulsifies Water, is very cheap insurance against the possibility of getting a bad tankful of fuel somewhere, especially for those who travel and tow thousands of miles cross country from time to time. Think of the additive as a liquid condom for your Fuel System. Ya can't just let any pump stick it's nozzle in her tank, without using appropriate protection.
I know in the infamous HPFP thread, there is doubt that US diesel has enough lubricity to support long term life of Bosch's components, but there has to be a baseline requirement of lubricity in fuels, as was stated in the original study. Whether its good enough or not for long life of fuel systems, it's the requirement that's being met, oil companies aren't going to bump it up just to be nice- so its up to us as owners and individuals to make the choice. My personal feeling is we have more to worry about the chance of getting a tankful of fuel with a high water content(contaminated with water and the treated with an emulsifier by the distributor, or station owner), than we need to fear about lubricity of fuel from the pump.
Regular use of any additive which, increases lubricity, boosts Cetane, and most importantly Demulsifies Water, is very cheap insurance against the possibility of getting a bad tankful of fuel somewhere, especially for those who travel and tow thousands of miles cross country from time to time. Think of the additive as a liquid condom for your Fuel System. Ya can't just let any pump stick it's nozzle in her tank, without using appropriate protection.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,839
Likes: 2
I had the same thought about the fuel used in that test. It was basically raw diesel, not what you'd find at the pump. Although it was a good test to see what each additive was able to do with it, it wasn't really indicative of the results any of us would get by adding it to the fuel we purchase at various locations.
I know in the infamous HPFP thread, there is doubt that US diesel has enough lubricity to support long term life of Bosch's components, but there has to be a baseline requirement of lubricity in fuels, as was stated in the original study. Whether its good enough or not for long life of fuel systems, it's the requirement that's being met, oil companies aren't going to bump it up just to be nice- so its up to us as owners and individuals to make the choice. My personal feeling is we have more to worry about the chance of getting a tankful of fuel with a high water content(contaminated with water and the treated with an emulsifier by the distributor, or station owner), than we need to fear about lubricity of fuel from the pump.
Regular use of any additive which, increases lubricity, boosts Cetane, and most importantly Demulsifies Water, is very cheap insurance against the possibility of getting a bad tankful of fuel somewhere, especially for those who travel and tow thousands of miles cross country from time to time. Think of the additive as a liquid condom for your Fuel System. Ya can't just let any pump stick it's nozzle in her tank, without using appropriate protection.
I know in the infamous HPFP thread, there is doubt that US diesel has enough lubricity to support long term life of Bosch's components, but there has to be a baseline requirement of lubricity in fuels, as was stated in the original study. Whether its good enough or not for long life of fuel systems, it's the requirement that's being met, oil companies aren't going to bump it up just to be nice- so its up to us as owners and individuals to make the choice. My personal feeling is we have more to worry about the chance of getting a tankful of fuel with a high water content(contaminated with water and the treated with an emulsifier by the distributor, or station owner), than we need to fear about lubricity of fuel from the pump.
Regular use of any additive which, increases lubricity, boosts Cetane, and most importantly Demulsifies Water, is very cheap insurance against the possibility of getting a bad tankful of fuel somewhere, especially for those who travel and tow thousands of miles cross country from time to time. Think of the additive as a liquid condom for your Fuel System. Ya can't just let any pump stick it's nozzle in her tank, without using appropriate protection.
Peace
