New update released !!
Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,399
Likes: 1
From: Corinth, TX
4-5k to learn your style? I think that's a stretch... not to mention the fact that it will need to learn all over again after it gets flashed. If your truck is eligible for this update according to Oasis, *you* should be able to choose. You are not required to let the dealer make that decision for you.
Elder User
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
From: herriman utah
my trans is getting worse so whatever style its learning is the WRONG one. I think that is really the route of the problem I think most of us at least me were extremely happy with the way the trans shifted now as time goes on it seems to be getting worse.
Senior User
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
Probably because they already pulled the 11-3-23 TSB. They pulled it early Monday morning.
Senior User
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 251
Likes: 0
What I got back from Ford.... And below that was posted by FORD on another thread....
Bob,
I researched the information that you provided and can see that yes the TSB was pulled. However, the TSB was pulled for an update. Your dealer has been advised that they can release the truck to you at this time. Please stay in contact with your dealer as they will be advised when the TSB is active, at that time they will take the action necessary to remedy the shifting issues. I apologize for any inconvenience this has caused you but appreciate your patience as we attempt to improve the TSB. Feel free to PM me with any further questions.
Seni
I'm reposting what I had written in previous thread regarding how we handle service issues as I feel it's important that all of you understand. My apologies for those that may have read the first part already. Note that I've also added some specifics on adaptive tables and the transmission calibration actions that I had mentioned. It's a bit long winded, my apologies for that.
This background should provide some clarity regarding the concern identification process. First off, a dedicated staff of over 100 technical specialists receive input for our Dealers. This information is captured, keyword coded into a database, part numbers, etc. There's a second group, called product concern engineers that data-mine this database for trends, repeat repairs, etc. Once a concern has been identified, a service fix "count-down" clock is started.
Engineering and Service are measured as part of our performance metrics which is tied directly to our performance reviews including Senior Managements. Some are measured on how fast a new concern was identified, while others are being measure on how quickly a resolution can be released to the dealer network. This creates a "checks" and "balances" type system to make sure that concerns are identified quickly, and that corrective actions are implemented. From the opening to closure of a new concern, rule of thumb is approx 70-90 days, with the majority being resolved much sooner.
Concerns are prioritized, based on severity. First and foremost is "dependability" which is directly tied to the impact to the customer. Then there's confidence, irritation and cosmetic. The reason for such prioritization is that resources are allocated based on the most critical issues first. Of course anything safety related takes precedence. It only takes a handful of concerns typically 6 or less of "confirmed" issues reported from the Dealer back to Ford with a population of <100,000 vehicles to trigger this process, and that scales lower for lower vehicle production volumes or new product introductions/launches.
The company is acutely aware that this is "your" vehicle and that it's your life that's being affected and that you expect a resolution when a concern arises. The people I mentioned above have sole responsibility to drive these issues to closure, that's what they do, that's all they do. Issues are reviewed daily and reported out weekly by a concern management team. If the process is working as it should, progress is being made, actions are in place and closure is forthcoming, all is good. I will also say that there are occasions and circumstances where there can be delays in the development of a permanent corrective action. This is typically caused by insufficient / inconclusive data to make a sound decision or exactly what the root cause of the concern is.
Issues are never ignored, it serves no purpose when your working to be the best automotive company on the planet to not listen to your customers. There are at times disagreements between departments, especially if an issue is considered "normal" by engineering and thus not defined as a concern. However, the same process applies and if field data continues to grow, the Service team will escalate the issue again. I guess the point I'm trying to make that the people here do care and will do everything in their power to get product issues resolved as quickly as possible and there are processes in place to make that happen.
Please keep in mind that the Dealer is in a tough spot when there's no service fix available and engineering is investigating root cause. There's great frustration from all those involved. I'm not making excuses, these vehicles are very complex and it takes a little time to sort through them when an issue does occur.
I would also like to comment on adaptive learning. Adaptive tables were/are probably one of the most important improvements/achievements to ever occur to the fundamental programming logic of powertrain control systems (engine and transmission). There's much variability that occurs during production, from supplier to supplier to final assembly and then during the normal wear process after years of use and environmental factors.
Not sure how many of you recall the days of the carburetor, choke pull-offs, floats, mixture control solenoids, etc. But the basic output was air-fuel mixture controlled by what the O2 sensor was reading. To maintain emissions and performance, fuel was controlled to maintain a stoiciometric ratio. The adaptive tables compensated for things like minor vacuum leaks, air temp, component wear, etc. The same applies today, but with improvements in technology, processing speed, memory capacity, a wider range of variability can be compensated for in what ultimately delivers the refinements that have been achieved and now almost go un-noticed these days with cold starts, idle quality, engine/trans performance and at 100-fold the reduction in emissions. In the case of resetting the tables by disconnecting battery power, everthing is reset to a null state. Fuel delivery as an example would typically default to a rich condition temporarily improving performance at the cost of emissions control until the tables re-learn.
Specific to this transmission, here's what to expect in a few weeks. I won't go as far as to say every nuance has been identified, but this will give you a pretty good idea of what the control strategy affects and how intricate the calibration and contol functions actually are.
Strategy/calibration improvements to address initial upshift flare event
Implement solenoid pre-charge/pulse logic for enhance cold pressure consistency
Utilize new integrated engine torque control tools to minimize shift flare
Modify pressure profiles for improved upshift feel and consistency
Adjustments to adaptive learning rates for more robustness to event variability
Revise detection thresholds and durations for upshift abort events
Revise pressure profiles and target times for improved power-on shift feel robustness
Modify adaptive pressure tables for more consistent compensation
Optimize adaptive learning functions for increased range of authority
Implementation of green KAM compensation to address hardware variability
Improve pressure response for coasting downshift tip-in events to improve feel
Revise power-on/power-off profiles and transition thresholds to match desired element capacity
Recalibration 2-1 pull-in pressure and utilization of target parameters for improved feel and consistency
Modify 3-2 costdown pressures, target shift times and adaptive pressure control learning
Expand adaptive learning on 5-4/5-3 coasting downshifts for improved accuracy and robustness
Prevent unwanted downshifts to 1st hear on heavy braking maneuvers
Revised pressure level and torque modulation triggers for 5-2 downshifts, enable 5-6/5-5-2 COM events
Revise temperature compensation for pressure solenoid transfer functions
Improve response for rolling drive engagements from neutral
Modified tip-in rate for more consistent converter clutch unlocks
The complexity is a monumental challenge. The number of wheel bases, the tire size, axle ratio, gvwr ratings, chassis cert, dyno cert, the list goes on and on. I'm in no way trying to justify some of the anomolies that present themselves from time to time, but just stating the realities of dealing with managing it.
Hope this helps,
-Paul
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Bob,
I researched the information that you provided and can see that yes the TSB was pulled. However, the TSB was pulled for an update. Your dealer has been advised that they can release the truck to you at this time. Please stay in contact with your dealer as they will be advised when the TSB is active, at that time they will take the action necessary to remedy the shifting issues. I apologize for any inconvenience this has caused you but appreciate your patience as we attempt to improve the TSB. Feel free to PM me with any further questions.
Seni
I'm reposting what I had written in previous thread regarding how we handle service issues as I feel it's important that all of you understand. My apologies for those that may have read the first part already. Note that I've also added some specifics on adaptive tables and the transmission calibration actions that I had mentioned. It's a bit long winded, my apologies for that.
This background should provide some clarity regarding the concern identification process. First off, a dedicated staff of over 100 technical specialists receive input for our Dealers. This information is captured, keyword coded into a database, part numbers, etc. There's a second group, called product concern engineers that data-mine this database for trends, repeat repairs, etc. Once a concern has been identified, a service fix "count-down" clock is started.
Engineering and Service are measured as part of our performance metrics which is tied directly to our performance reviews including Senior Managements. Some are measured on how fast a new concern was identified, while others are being measure on how quickly a resolution can be released to the dealer network. This creates a "checks" and "balances" type system to make sure that concerns are identified quickly, and that corrective actions are implemented. From the opening to closure of a new concern, rule of thumb is approx 70-90 days, with the majority being resolved much sooner.
Concerns are prioritized, based on severity. First and foremost is "dependability" which is directly tied to the impact to the customer. Then there's confidence, irritation and cosmetic. The reason for such prioritization is that resources are allocated based on the most critical issues first. Of course anything safety related takes precedence. It only takes a handful of concerns typically 6 or less of "confirmed" issues reported from the Dealer back to Ford with a population of <100,000 vehicles to trigger this process, and that scales lower for lower vehicle production volumes or new product introductions/launches.
The company is acutely aware that this is "your" vehicle and that it's your life that's being affected and that you expect a resolution when a concern arises. The people I mentioned above have sole responsibility to drive these issues to closure, that's what they do, that's all they do. Issues are reviewed daily and reported out weekly by a concern management team. If the process is working as it should, progress is being made, actions are in place and closure is forthcoming, all is good. I will also say that there are occasions and circumstances where there can be delays in the development of a permanent corrective action. This is typically caused by insufficient / inconclusive data to make a sound decision or exactly what the root cause of the concern is.
Issues are never ignored, it serves no purpose when your working to be the best automotive company on the planet to not listen to your customers. There are at times disagreements between departments, especially if an issue is considered "normal" by engineering and thus not defined as a concern. However, the same process applies and if field data continues to grow, the Service team will escalate the issue again. I guess the point I'm trying to make that the people here do care and will do everything in their power to get product issues resolved as quickly as possible and there are processes in place to make that happen.
Please keep in mind that the Dealer is in a tough spot when there's no service fix available and engineering is investigating root cause. There's great frustration from all those involved. I'm not making excuses, these vehicles are very complex and it takes a little time to sort through them when an issue does occur.
I would also like to comment on adaptive learning. Adaptive tables were/are probably one of the most important improvements/achievements to ever occur to the fundamental programming logic of powertrain control systems (engine and transmission). There's much variability that occurs during production, from supplier to supplier to final assembly and then during the normal wear process after years of use and environmental factors.
Not sure how many of you recall the days of the carburetor, choke pull-offs, floats, mixture control solenoids, etc. But the basic output was air-fuel mixture controlled by what the O2 sensor was reading. To maintain emissions and performance, fuel was controlled to maintain a stoiciometric ratio. The adaptive tables compensated for things like minor vacuum leaks, air temp, component wear, etc. The same applies today, but with improvements in technology, processing speed, memory capacity, a wider range of variability can be compensated for in what ultimately delivers the refinements that have been achieved and now almost go un-noticed these days with cold starts, idle quality, engine/trans performance and at 100-fold the reduction in emissions. In the case of resetting the tables by disconnecting battery power, everthing is reset to a null state. Fuel delivery as an example would typically default to a rich condition temporarily improving performance at the cost of emissions control until the tables re-learn.
Specific to this transmission, here's what to expect in a few weeks. I won't go as far as to say every nuance has been identified, but this will give you a pretty good idea of what the control strategy affects and how intricate the calibration and contol functions actually are.
Strategy/calibration improvements to address initial upshift flare event
Implement solenoid pre-charge/pulse logic for enhance cold pressure consistency
Utilize new integrated engine torque control tools to minimize shift flare
Modify pressure profiles for improved upshift feel and consistency
Adjustments to adaptive learning rates for more robustness to event variability
Revise detection thresholds and durations for upshift abort events
Revise pressure profiles and target times for improved power-on shift feel robustness
Modify adaptive pressure tables for more consistent compensation
Optimize adaptive learning functions for increased range of authority
Implementation of green KAM compensation to address hardware variability
Improve pressure response for coasting downshift tip-in events to improve feel
Revise power-on/power-off profiles and transition thresholds to match desired element capacity
Recalibration 2-1 pull-in pressure and utilization of target parameters for improved feel and consistency
Modify 3-2 costdown pressures, target shift times and adaptive pressure control learning
Expand adaptive learning on 5-4/5-3 coasting downshifts for improved accuracy and robustness
Prevent unwanted downshifts to 1st hear on heavy braking maneuvers
Revised pressure level and torque modulation triggers for 5-2 downshifts, enable 5-6/5-5-2 COM events
Revise temperature compensation for pressure solenoid transfer functions
Improve response for rolling drive engagements from neutral
Modified tip-in rate for more consistent converter clutch unlocks
The complexity is a monumental challenge. The number of wheel bases, the tire size, axle ratio, gvwr ratings, chassis cert, dyno cert, the list goes on and on. I'm in no way trying to justify some of the anomolies that present themselves from time to time, but just stating the realities of dealing with managing it.
Hope this helps,
-Paul
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