38R Surge!
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,892
Likes: 2
From: Middle Tennessee
So it is dependant on the tuning is my point. No matter the injectors or turbo. Sure big injectors and small turbos can be a challenge but they only inject what is commanded. Get a proper setup. Even big injectors can be pulled back to work with a smaller turbo but what is the point of that?
I go back to previous posts where I point out about efficiency maps and the ability to compute HP gains based on air and fuel flow based on the given turbo and the given never changing displacement of the 7.3. Is it dead on? No. But it is a pretty reliable tool that will enable you to calculate within 10 to 20 HP.
BTW, 160cc injectors are far from large even with 100% nozzles. What is the proposed flow of those, 160? Is that 100% of 160? I hate this injector % crap. Why don't they just post the flow rate?
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,265
Likes: 2
From: Garden City, KS
160cc because that's the flow of stock AC injectors. I want AC's because they're consistent and are stock... they haven't been modified or anything. Reliability is basically it... between Clay and John Wood, both are saying AC's would make an awesome injector. About the nozzles... I meant 100% over stock nozzles. My fault for not clarifying. An AC is just shy of the flow of a stage-2... with nozzles, I'll have something almost as hot as a stage-2 and hopefully, I'll be closer to 400HP towing with this combo than I would with stock AC's. ALSO... I'm told AC's are bit better on Oil than other injectors. Just my thinking... that's what I'm going with.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,265
Likes: 2
From: Garden City, KS
Right, but I don't wanna have to dump a ton of fuel in there to get that power... I know I can get 400-ish HP with stock AC's, but that's in the race tunes. I want to get 400-ish HP while in the tow tunes or at least pretty close. With nozzles and AC's, as far as I know, all that's changed is the nozzles, not the fueling. I figure that to equate to a bit less fuel usage than stock AC's and tuning... but what do I know? Just my thinking... not looking to get too technical, I just know that stage-2's are about where I'd like to be. I just want the consistency of AC's as well as the fact that they're unmodified other than the nozzles. If I'm right, the internals of the injectors are not touched when only changing out nozzles. Hope this makes sense... I'm not looking to see how much power I can make, I just want to be up there with the new trucks while at the same time being reliable and not pushing the truck so far as to be drastically jeopardizing the life of my motor. From what I can tell, 400HP seems to be that threshold between twisting it up safely and taking the chance of windowing the block.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 25,090
Likes: 1,112
From: Rio Rico, AZ.
Right, but I don't wanna have to dump a ton of fuel in there to get that power... I know I can get 400-ish HP with stock AC's, but that's in the race tunes. I want to get 400-ish HP while in the tow tunes or at least pretty close. With nozzles and AC's, as far as I know, all that's changed is the nozzles, not the fueling. I figure that to equate to a bit less fuel usage than stock AC's and tuning... but what do I know? Just my thinking... not looking to get too technical, I just know that stage-2's are about where I'd like to be. I just want the consistency of AC's as well as the fact that they're unmodified other than the nozzles. If I'm right, the internals of the injectors are not touched when only changing out nozzles. Hope this makes sense... I'm not looking to see how much power I can make, I just want to be up there with the new trucks while at the same time being reliable and not pushing the truck so far as to be drastically jeopardizing the life of my motor. From what I can tell, 400HP seems to be that threshold between twisting it up safely and taking the chance of windowing the block.
You are going to need a lot more air than a single can deliver to be able to control EGT.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,265
Likes: 2
From: Garden City, KS
I don't mind having to fix stuff... it goes with the territory. As they say, "You can't have your cake and eat it too." I'm just talking about "NOT-blowing-the-block-up" kinda reliable. I would love to check out a modded H2E... I hear it supposedly has the lowest boost to back pressure ratio. I also hear it's quieter, though... I may be weird, but I'd kinda like to hear the turbo. Could also be because I'm young...
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From: Central Coast of CA
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Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 25,090
Likes: 1,112
From: Rio Rico, AZ.
I don't have an engineering degree, but my thought is this.
Ford's new design involved more than one turbo and they are pushing 400hp now.
For whatever reason, they felt that more than just a single turbo was necessary and one of Jonathan's requirements is reliability with that 400hp.
Just putting two things together in my mind.
Ford's new design involved more than one turbo and they are pushing 400hp now.
For whatever reason, they felt that more than just a single turbo was necessary and one of Jonathan's requirements is reliability with that 400hp.
Just putting two things together in my mind.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,265
Likes: 2
From: Garden City, KS
I don't have an engineering degree, but my thought is this.
Ford's new design involved more than one turbo and they are pushing 400hp now.
For whatever reason, they felt that more than just a single turbo was necessary and one of Jonathan's requirements is reliability with that 400hp.
Just putting two things together in my mind.
Ford's new design involved more than one turbo and they are pushing 400hp now.
For whatever reason, they felt that more than just a single turbo was necessary and one of Jonathan's requirements is reliability with that 400hp.
Just putting two things together in my mind.
Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,767
Likes: 1
I don't have an engineering degree, but my thought is this.
Ford's new design involved more than one turbo and they are pushing 400hp now.
For whatever reason, they felt that more than just a single turbo was necessary and one of Jonathan's requirements is reliability with that 400hp.
Just putting two things together in my mind.
Ford's new design involved more than one turbo and they are pushing 400hp now.
For whatever reason, they felt that more than just a single turbo was necessary and one of Jonathan's requirements is reliability with that 400hp.
Just putting two things together in my mind.
I am no expert to say the least. But there are guys running single turbos with hybrids that say they pull great.
*From my readings on 2 forums, I see truck owners and tuners really liking 238/80 and 238/100 hybrid sticks with good single chargers. Mainly the 38R and H2E. RockRunner is the only guy I "internet know" that is running the ProCharger and towing.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,265
Likes: 2
From: Garden City, KS
Dan, you have probably forgot more about the 7.3 than I have ever known so please don't take my previous post as ANY disrespect to your knowledge at all.
I am no expert to say the least. But there are guys running single turbos with hybrids that say they pull great.
*From my readings on 2 forums, I see truck owners and tuners really liking 238/80 and 238/100 hybrid sticks with good single chargers. Mainly the 38R and H2E. RockRunner is the only guy I "internet know" that is running the ProCharger and towing.
I am no expert to say the least. But there are guys running single turbos with hybrids that say they pull great.
*From my readings on 2 forums, I see truck owners and tuners really liking 238/80 and 238/100 hybrid sticks with good single chargers. Mainly the 38R and H2E. RockRunner is the only guy I "internet know" that is running the ProCharger and towing.
Postmaster
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,767
Likes: 1
For me, this thread Uniform Injectors Standards - PowerStrokeNation is like drinking knowledge from a firehose but there is some great information from some of the best that even I can wrap my brain around. From this thread and others I have read, I believe hybrids and a good single turbo will net you a very sweet 400 hp towing machine because they can be tuned down to your goal instead of maxing out a set of 160 singles. As in 160/100's (stage 2).
If you would like an option in the 360ish hp range, do a search on WhiteBuffalo 's set-up. If I remember correctly, he has a Van Turbo and a set of SWAMPS 175/146 single shots (stage 1.5) and pulls a sweet 5er all over the U.S. with Tony Wildman tunes. I'm pretty sure with PMR'S.
If you would like an option in the 360ish hp range, do a search on WhiteBuffalo 's set-up. If I remember correctly, he has a Van Turbo and a set of SWAMPS 175/146 single shots (stage 1.5) and pulls a sweet 5er all over the U.S. with Tony Wildman tunes. I'm pretty sure with PMR'S.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 10,977
Likes: 5
From: Lancaster, Pa.
Casserly and Clay are running a great deal on hybrids right now and if I had the cash I'd pull the trigger in a heartbeat. Like Jason mentioned, the tuning capability on hybrids is amazing. The key is, proper tuning from all I've learned here. The only way I'll get them is if I hit the lottery but I'm keeping faith.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,265
Likes: 2
From: Garden City, KS
For me, this thread Uniform Injectors Standards - PowerStrokeNation is like drinking knowledge from a firehose but there is some great information from some of the best that even I can wrap my brain around. From this thread and others I have read, I believe hybrids and a good single turbo will net you a very sweet 400 hp towing machine because they can be tuned down to your goal instead of maxing out a set of 160 singles. As in 160/100's (stage 2).
If you would like an option in the 360ish hp range, do a search on WhiteBuffalo 's set-up. If I remember correctly, he has a Van Turbo and a set of SWAMPS 175/146 single shots (stage 1.5) and pulls a sweet 5er all over the U.S. with Tony Wildman tunes. I'm pretty sure with PMR'S.
If you would like an option in the 360ish hp range, do a search on WhiteBuffalo 's set-up. If I remember correctly, he has a Van Turbo and a set of SWAMPS 175/146 single shots (stage 1.5) and pulls a sweet 5er all over the U.S. with Tony Wildman tunes. I'm pretty sure with PMR'S.
Here's a pretty god link: Injector Info - PowerStrokeNation
I still can't figure out if I want a hybrid or an AC with nozzles... I really don't want a ton more power than 400. Unless hybrids utilize the fuel better and make it efficient fuel-wise, then AC's with nozzles sounds like the way to go.