I swore I'd never do this, but I'm really leaning toward some sticks and a 38R. Long story as to why, so not going to even start it. But the stock sticks have some age and I'm thinking I'd like to go with some SS injectors. My dilemma is whether to go with the Casserly/FF stage 1, or stage 2 with 80% nozzles, or just the 'normal' stage 2. I've been talking with Clay a little about it and I will be talking to him a lot more before deciding if and when to do this. But I'd like input from you guys.
Here's what I am after:
I do not drag race or race on the street. I don't want to be the king of speed. I race once a year in TN at RRE for fun. I do like to romp on it from a stop on occasion for short distances just for fun. I don't want to, or like to, go 100+ mph.
80% of my trucks use is towing. Anywhere from 7000# to 18000#. I want a lot more towing power.
So what do you think? I am leaning toward the stage 1 and seeing if that will work with a modded OE turbo w/1.0 housing. But I don't want to regret it later. I am willing to go stage 2 with a 38R, but only if it doesn't cause problems when towing heavy up a grade. Don't really want water injection either.
The more I read about injectors, the more I realize I don't understand them like I thought. What is the difference between a stage 2 with a 80% nozzle and 100% nozzle, and why would they be better than a stage 1 injector?

 

Injector size in CC's is the amount of fuel available to deliver per injection cycle. Obviously the more fuel you have available, the more power you can make. That's the short version anyway.

In terms of nozzle sizes, it refers to the time available to deliver the fuel. Larger nozzles can deliver more fuel in a shorter amount of time.... up to the amount of fuel available of course (limited by the injector itself).

So what can nozzles do for you? Well, tuning has come a long way in recent years. Folks are finding out that larger nozzles do actually work well for towing, as long as they are properly tuned.

Now let's say for instance you have two injectors, both capable of the same amount of fueling ("X" cc's). The one with stock nozzles might take 4 ms to completely empty at 3000 psi ICP. The other has larger nozzles and can empty the same amount of fuel in 2.5 ms with the same ICP.

Assuming you have adequate airflow for both injectors, which one will run cooler? Well, the larger nozzles are injecting the fuel in a smaller window, thus you can get a faster burn. That faster burn will in turn net you lower EGT's... again assuming you have a properly matched turbo to supply the airflow.

If you're towing regularly, you'll definitely be able to appreciate lower EGT's. As RPM's climb, the window of injection decreases. If the injector with smaller nozzles takes longer to inject fuel, you'll see an increase in EGT's compared to the exact same injector using larger nozzles. Mainly because the fueling is not all happening in the most opportune window of time.

Basically, a larger injector works better if the window of injection can better match the fuel quantity and rate of injection. There are plenty of folks out there with big injectors and big nozzles, and they are more than capable of towing easily while keeping EGT's in check. Mike (Blowby) up here in Colorado has proved that very large injectors can be tamed, and even pass emissions. That speaks volumes for smoke control. Of course, if you are capable of limiting smoke, then you're also capable of limiting EGT's.

 

Just to add... for a long time I've been a proponent of smaller nozzles. It wasn't until I started tuning my own truck, as well as seeing the results of others accomplish some incredible things with large nozzles, that I started appreciating the benefits of bigger nozzles.

 

I would go with stage II's and the 38R with some good tooning. You can also add the 1.15 exhaust housing on the 38R to help EGT's if needed. Some like the 1.15 and some don't but it works for me.

 

Thanks pocket, that's helpful. A shorter injection time can equal a faster burn and cooler egts.

As for the housing to use, that's still up in the air too. Seems a 1.0 might spool faster but a 1.15 might help with exhaust flow, so that seems like a crap shoot to me. I think id.lean toward the 1.0 that comes with it and change later if needed.

Anyone else? I know there's tons of smartness about this subject.out there.

 

Keep the 1.0 housing with Stage II's.

 

The more miles I accumulate on my truck, the more I'm glad I have the stix I do. I need more air to take full advantage of these, but they tune down nicely for towing, and even at full blast, the van turbo has been handling them surprisingly well. Yes, I could make more power with more air, but I'm already pushing my PMRs, and before I even think about turning up the heat (and I'd go mod'ed H2E), I need some bottom end work. It's coming....

 

Ya i follow your setup closely joe. Waiting for the day you post up the latest windows 7.3 mod but it hasn't come yet.. I really don't want to surpass the 400 hp mark so im leaning toward stage 1. But if i can limit the power with stage 2s and they would work better maybe that's the way to go.

Another thing that came up is fuel delivery with stage 2. Is my lift pump going to do the job? I'm ready to do this, but iseriously don't know which way to go. I tend to fret and overthink things.

 

im am currently doing what you are talking about.

i decided to go with singles and will keep the stock turbo for a while...im am only doing a reflash (for now) of the pcm to a DP 40 tow tune. i have no interest in racing...i just wanted a little more power for towing.

Cant wait till its done to see the difference because i really wasnt disappointed in the way it towed stock with the injectors only flowing around 125 cc's.

going to 160+cc's and a 40 tow tune should be lights out....like night and day compared to where i was at. I'm guessing around 100HP increase from where i was at.....would that be right?

 

Go stage 2's, 100% nozzles and a 38R, you saw first hand how well it runs... LOL!!

I love my setup for towing. Towed the in-laws camper to RRE through the hills, only once it got over 1250*. Otherwise it'd get wound up and just climb the hills with ease.
I personally would stick with the 1.0 housing, I'll take a quicker spool up over top end air flow anyday. I do a lot of "grunt" work with it around the farm and need that quick spool. I am looking for a 6.0L IC though.

 

a lot of interesting reading here, i am also more interested in towing than speed.. i will report that i have stage 1s with a 38r and am very happy with the set up, good pulling torke and plenty of pull on the upper end while keeping EGT's under controll...The only regret is not being able to roll smoke...thats another story

 

Lol Adam! Trust me, i am replaying those races in my mind. I was going to pm you today about your set up. I know you started out with stage 1 and wanted your thoughts.

 

all,

I'm tossing these same decisions around myself, subscribing for the knowledge. Thanks guys.

Matt

 

Keith I am running Casserly's stage 1's and a 38r with 1.0 exhaust. After being live tuned I am completely pleased with the results. I have the ebpv, allowing use of the decel tune, my egt's are great, I averaged over 16 mpg over all for the trip to TN. Pulls like a dream and scoots down the road well. Don't race but do pull some good sized loads across the local passes.

 

As far as I know, the only difference between stage 1's and 2's is the size of the nozzle. I started out with 1's, had bad issues with them, sent them to Casserly to put "his" nozzles on and wish I would have gone that route first.