Looking at buying this used 2004 F150 and the Seller says it has a problem with the ignition switch; that it continues to run the starter even after the engine is running, which burns out the starter. He's an obvious layperson and doesn't know much about mechanical stuff (or he's pretending, IDK).

This sounds very strange to me, because if it's some kind of mechanical defect/factory defect, it's something that Ford should have identified, documented, issued a recall maybe, or something, yet when I research the issue the only thing I find is a problem with ignition switches that cause fires in model years that end in 2003 (not 2004). Other than that I find no documentation.

I wonder how accurate the Seller's description is, or maybe it's defective due to some other reason, like maybe a car thief shoved something into the ignition and damaged it, or possibly corrosion. Or maybe it's simply "sticky" and some spray lubricant would fix it.

So I'm posting here hoping someone maybe has seen this problem before, or has something useful to say about it. Thanks in advance.

 

It could be the solenoid, it could be the ignition switch. It's a 13 year old truck, so it could just be a worn part and not a design defect. Maybe the key cylinder doesn't spring back to the run position due to diet and grime build up. A little more investigation to rule out possibilities is in order.
Stuck starter on any model is not a totally unheard of event. A lot of times it's the solenoid that gets stuck.

 

1) When you say "diet" do you mean greasy fingers on the ignition key, or something else?

2) The Seller said the starter had been replaced. It's possible that the new Starter has not experienced the same problem and he may still be blaming the ignition switch when it was a faulty solenoid from the 1st starter the whole time.


On this particular truck, the main issue is the oil leak He doesn't know if it's the rear or front main seal, or oil pan gasket, or valve cover gasket. Or power steering pump. Or what. I guess I'm going to have to go look at it. I'm really wanting to BUY, not shop.

Thanks for the response. Just as a note to anyone selling a vehicle, don't "step on" your buyer in conversation while he's asking a question that's important to him, in order to give some stupid details about things he doesn't care about. I've got a pile of cash and am ready to spend now and the biggest obstacle between me and buying this truck is that 1) the seller doesn't listen and 2) the seller won't STFU. An example: If I cared about the depth of the tread on the tires, I'd ask about the depth of the tread of the tires. Sorry. As I type this I'm working things out and I just realized that nervous yapping is the Seller trying to hide his guilty knowledge that it's a serious oil leak. I'll post this anyways, on the chance it helps someone else, both as Buyer or as Seller.

 

That should have said dirt, not diet.
As for the leak, gotta determine what fluid is leaking, then go from there.
Kind of sounds like this '04 is a mechanic's special, meaning it's going to need a bit of work to get it where you want it.

 

I'm sure the ignition switch is sticking like he said because one can see it not moving back to the run position. That being said, figure the cost of the switch into your negotiations. Once the truck is yours you might be able to pull the lock out and clean and oil it and be all set. You'll want to avoid replacing it unless you don't mind having a key for the doors and a different key for the ignition.

 

Right well again I can do a few things like replace the oil pan or valve cover gaskets but I'm not getting into the main oil seals. IDK if I want to mess with this one, not because of the work I might have to do, but because the Seller seemed so focused on what he wanted to tell me that he failed to pay attention to what I was saying or asking. He wouldn't shut up about the tires, or the maintenance records, or the oil change, or the x, the y or the z. Anytime I tried to get into the possible source of the oil leak, this guy had like 5 other things he thought were more important to talk about. Like the fact that it had superficial scratches and dings.

On a 15 year-old truck. Imagine that. Who would have thought there were superficial scratches and dings on a 15 year-old truck. Let's stop talking about the possible source of the oil leak so you can tell me ALL about that time in the Wal-Mart parking lot some old lady put a ding on the back right fender. I'll wait patiently while you try to remember if that old lady had insurance or not, after all it was 8 years ago. Or was it 10 years ago. You can't remember.

I'm posting the above to let possible future Sellers learn what "shady" looks like. If you are selling a used truck and you are talking to a guy that has a pocketful of cash and wants to BUY not SHOP and he wants to do it THIS WEEK, you might want to STFU and pay attention to the things he wants to know about and STFU about the things he doesn't care about. It's just a word to the wise, for those that might be selling a truck in the future.

 

Spot on great advice that deserves some rep points!

 

I kind of figured that it might be the opposite; that when the mechanical part of the switch is released "back" (counter-clockwise), there might be some kind of spring-loaded electrical component that does not move back with it. If the electrical and the mechanical are "fused" together, then I would think turning the key back to the "normal" operate position would force the electrical part back to. I have no idea how ignition switches work, and I'm hoping someone here does and can give some insight.

Also what kind of "cost deduction" should I be looking at. How hard is it to replace an ignition switch. Is this a DIY thing or a mechanic thing or a locksmith thing. Also I thought having different keys for doors and ignition was standard practice. Doors and trunk were keyed one way and ignition keyed another.

 

Doors and ignition cylinders were keyed alike when the truck left the factory. You can replace place individual cylinders and, if you don't have it re-keyed, you will end up with individual keys. If you replace the ignition cylinder and key, you will have to address PATS.

I forget which has the spring in it that's supposed to rotate the combined assembly back from START to RUN when you release the pressure on the key.

For a starter that fails to disengage when the key is released, there are four likely causes that need to be checked:

1. Verify the ignition switch returns to the RUN position when pressure is released.
2. Check for a sticking starter relay (in central junction box).
3. Check for a sticking or binding starter solenoid (Bendix) on the starter motor.
4. Wiring damage that is causing a short-circuit to battery power in the starter engagement circuit.

 

The cost will depend on if it's the ignition switch or the ignition lock that's sticking. You could check with a local locksmith regarding cost to replace the lock and have it rekeyed to your existing key. This would allow you to use the existing key and not have to reprogram anything. If it's the ignition switch it's $30 give or take, plus labor if you can't install it.

 

From what Im reading................run away.

 

I just got off the phone with the Seller and have some new information. He says that there have been a total of three starters in this truck. One the original from the factory, an aftermarket starter from AutoZone and there's a rebuilt "MotoCraft" (or-something-or-other) in there now. All have been killed-off by the starter run-on problem.

He said he's already replaced the "switch" which is a white box further down the steering column from the ignition switch. I assume he's using the wrong language here. Which, he says, means the only thing left to blame is the ignition switch where the key goes. He uses the word "switch" to mean both where the key goes and the white box further down the steering column, so things were a little confusing in the 1st conversation with him.

$30 seems a small price to pay. My primary concern here is that it's $30 and not $300.

There is also the question of the "oil leak". I might climb underneath the vehicle tomorrow and take pictures to post here. Pep Boys said they would put it on the lift and give it a visual inspection for $30, but I'll have to get the Seller to agree to do this. If the starter in it is fried, I don't think it's running. I won't be buying a vehicle if I don't find out how it runs. This just occurred to me as I was typing.

How do you test-drive a vehicle that does not start?

What's "PATS"?

I think the what the Seller is calling the "switch", the "white box further down the steering column", is what you are calling the "starter relay".

Wiring damage is worst-case scenario, and a deal-breaker.

Also, is it possible that the problems with the starter/ignition is due to someone shoving something mechanical into the ignition switch, say for example a car thief trying to steal the truck? As anyone seen a situation where someone deliberately shoved something into the ignition switch and caused this kind of run-on problem. My concern is that the damage in there is more extensive than what can be repaired by simply replacing the ignition switch. I've never seen an ignition switch removed from a vehicle, or a schematic. Is it possible to look at pictures of one, or a schematic, or both? So I can get some sense of what's in there?

As an aside, is it possible to tell if an F150 is a short-bed or a long-bed by the VIN#? My garage isn't deep enough for a 2-door Super Cab with a long bed. Is there a way to research a vehicle's overall length with the VIN#? My garage is only 235" deep, and if I could tell a vehicle is too long right off the bat, it would save me some time.

 

Got Google? Owner's manual for the truck?

That would be the (electrical) ignition switch. The starter relay is on the firewall under the hood. Do not confuse the electrical ignition switch with the ignition cylinder which, through a linkage, actuates the switch when you turn the key.

https://www.etis.ford.com/vehicleRegSelector.do

See attachment.