I have just about made up my mind on a turbo and I am looking favorably at the KC38R. It is rebuildable, FWIW, it should flow more air all things considered than the 38R, and there is no doubt that it is quieter than the 38r. I know of three that are running around in trucks that used to have 38r's in them. Everyone agrees that there was a reduction in EGT's by around 100 degrees in the exact same situations towing. Collectively, those three have over 120k miles on them and are w/o problem.

You are correct in that the .84 housing may be better for you if you stick with stock sticks or maybe AC160 = 160/0's on the manual tran. However, going with a larger nozzle will almost always reduce EGT's, sometimes by a couple of hundred degrees, if the tuner knows what he is doing. Pocket had a recent post that explained it better than I can. You have experienced my attemp in the past. Larger nozzles will also have the ability to reduce the lag due to more fuel being available earlier, WHEN Needed. This removes the limitation of having only one turbo choice for the .84 AR if you don't want the KC38R.

The .84 AR is also more than likely going to increase the EGT's when you bump up to AC160's...more fuel=more exhaust gas being forced thru the approx same sized hole..

Others may disagree, that is what the forum is for.

 

The main thing about going up grades is to go up at a high enough rpm that you maintain air into the cylinders at a fast enough rate to cool egt's down. Don't lug it. On the other hand don't leave the pedal on the floor either. This is much easier with the stick shift in a certain gear and you have to find the sweet spot. I'm not saying it can't be done with the auto, you just have more gears.

 

For those of you following along with this thread, it evolved into a turbo/injector discussion at the link below.

Click here for turbo/injector technical data

Although, some instructions were sent to me via PM by a friend that closely resemble the install for the Diesel Innovations I/C. They can be viewed by clicking on the attachment below.

Unlike the Mishimoto linked above, this install does not require removal of the radiator, but does require loosening of the mounts for the radiator and condenser.

More detailed information concerning an I/C install will come along shortly once life has slowed down and the FTE member has time to relay thoughts properly.

This may still be an option for some to reduce EGT's, but it is currently #3 on my list after 160/80 injectors and a KC38R.

 

I installed Diesel Innovations intercooler on our 2003 F-250 in 2006 running stock injectors. I chose the DI after doing some research, input from members on The Dieselstop.com that have used aftermarket intercoolers and a couple of people that had installed DI’s intercooler. When I would go to dyno runs in Oklahoma we saw that I was running lower EGT’s than some of the other 7.3L’s with similar setups, and this was without having any airflow over the coolers besides a big fan. At that time there were much fewer aftermarket intercoolers to choose from. IIRC the choices back then were:

6.0L intercooler
Turbonetics (not sure if they are still around or not)
Diesel Innovations
Hypermax
Banks




At that time the 6.0L seemed to be the best bang for the buck, if one could be found for $300 it would yield about 50 degree EGT drops unloaded and 75-100 towing (as posted by members). Not driving around town EGT drops but WOT runs unloaded and towing up longer grades.

Most of the others above have shown up to a 200 degrees EGT drop, except for the Hypermax Tapercore - the Hypermax Tapercore yields even greater drop in EGT's but comes with a hefty price tag - $1800. But if you want the "best of breed" it's gonna cost.

================================================== =========================================

There are definitey benefits to an intercooler upgrade on a non-stock 7.3L. As you all know, turbochargers force more air (and thus more oxygen) into the engine's intake allowing us to make more power. We measure that forced air as boost pressure (PSI). The increased pressure also comes with a price, when you increase pressure you also increase temperature – thus reducing density and some of the potential performance gains of increased airflow (boost). Passing the compressed & heated air through the intercooler reduces its temperature and increases air density. an intercooler is essentially a “density machine”. Greater air density means you can add more fuel without increasing exhaust gas temperatures and more fuel means more power and possible better fuel mileage since less fuel is needed to make the same power. The goal is to get the intercooler output temp as close as possible to ambient air temp. So the first step I would recommend before deciding on purchasing an aftermarket intercooler is to get a better idea of you own post intercooler temps, not just EGT’s.

You can easily do this by monitoring IAT and manifold air temps with a scanner/OBD monitor. This way you can see for yourself the efficiency of your current intercooler on your specific setup.

As an example, my 6.0L would see 145 degree manifold air temps when pulling heavy up a long grade in Colorado or Wyoming, while running a tune, with OAT’s at 95 degrees. The 6.0L PCM will defuel the engine if coolant temp, oil temp or Manifold air temp gets too hot. I think the the value for Manifold temps is 150 F, but I’d need to check that.

I know it’s wrong to compare apples to oranges, but on a hot day (97 degrees F) running our F-250 7.3L with the DI intercooler I logged 115 Manifod air temps, much closer to ambient. Yes, I am considering an intercooler upgrade on the 6.0L.






I really want to continue more on this discussion, but I have to run. I’ll catch up with you guys later tonight........

best regards,

Rich

 

Great information Rich. I'm not sure the e99 has IAT so would be hard to measure.

 

Consider this, When you look at competition sled puller's they have a huge ice tank on the front to increase the density of the air charge. The benefit is two fold, more HP and better EGT's.

Sous isn't building a sled puller but the same principle applies. A cooler air charge will result in more Pulling power, lower EGT's and a more efficient burn.




Now havin said that. There are other ways to cool the air charge. Like mentioned above you could use a water/meth injection to spray small amounts into the that will lower the air temp and add some oxygen as well. You can spray water on the outside of the intercooler as well. As mentioned above the nice thing about the intercooler is that it is a passive system. Install and forget about it. You can make the water/meth systems passive by setting "triggers" with the EGT gauge so you don't have to remember to flick the switch.

 

A technical way to look at it is with a compressor map of the turbo - like in Sous' other thread posted above. When you increase the intercooler efficiency you can move father from the center island on a compressor map and operate in the lower efficiency islands since you slightly reduce your pressure ratio and reduced air temp.

 

As you can tell, I'm a huge fan of improving intercooler efficiency for more efficient power and lower EGT's. But if EGT's are the single focus then there are more ways to address that aspect.

Like others have said,

A/R Turbo modifications
Turbo upgrade
Larger injector nozzles
Or like Tom did to his 7.3L van and rerouted the air intake into the cab! Right next to the A/C vent!

 

I forgot to mention a couple of points:

Remember, it's more about air volume than boost pressure. When you add an aftermarket intercooler you will see a boost pressure drop. Due to the fact that you just reduced the air temperature more than the stock intercooler did & removed some restrictions to airflow, and in a closed system (volume remains the same) a decrease in temperature will result in a decrease in pressure. But this isn't a bad thing - it's a good thing, because you are supplying a denser air charge at a lower restriction that contains more oxygen than the slightly higher pressure hot air charge you started with.

 

this setup has worked very well for me over the years. As you can see my EGT's are around 700 at 80 mph, unloaded and still on the throttle at @ 2100-2200 rpms. Boost normally hangs out around 7-12 psi at this speed unloaded. The excursion with the S366 turbo hangs out more around 10-15.





Can I still get high EGT's even with an aftermarket intercooler?

I sure can:

throw a tune on there with a high pulse width and stomp on it from a stoplight. But if you "wait to romp" until the TC's locked and she's rolling through 3rd gear - no problemo.

Tow heavy & lug the RPM's under 1800 on a long grade. 2,000 RPM's and up she's fine, I like being able to set the cruise at 70mph and just enjoy the pull.

 

But if I ever need to replace the 175/146 (stock nozzles) injectors on this pick-up, I will go with a set of hybrids (238/80's) and tackle the EGT's right at the source (as Tony & Pocket have tried to tell me in the past).

I apologized if I rambled and swerved off topic here and there. Just trying to throw it all out there before I forget to.......

Sous, I don't believe I I helped make your decision any easier......I will always go with a more efficient intercooler on my stuff. I like being able to put my hand on the passenger side IC pump when filling with fuel. It makes me smile.......��������

 

Have you done much research on the I/C's available to us now since you upgraded yours to the Diesel Innovations version? The reason why I ask is if we can get the same or virtually the same results from another, newer design I/C for a better price that would certainly be an option.

It is clear though that the DI I/C performs well and should be a consideration.

Because the PSI of the turbo is reduced by cooler intake air the power band, or efficiency islands of the turbo are slightly modified. The turbo is capable of producing the same amount of power with less boost/PSI. As I understand it, this is what an I/C can do for us.

This not only reduces EGT's as a by product of less boost and lower MAT, but makes the same amount of power from the engine with less effort.

So, is the I/C worth $1000 - $1400, only the owner can answer that question. For me, I will attempt to find the best bang for the buck in the I/C market and put it on my "wish list" in case it is needed. I prefer to have purchases or items lined up and ready for when funds are available instead of having funds, then scrambling to find the right product and perhaps making an expensive mistake.

In addition to brand choices, we have size choices between the 7.3 drop in replacement and the 6.0 squeeze in replacement. I believe I saw a post on another forum stating that the 7.3 I/C was actually larger in volume than a 6.0, but the 6.0 was more efficient in the way it handled the hot air. Does a 6.0 fit well into the front of our trucks or does it need to squeeze in there to fit and might be a little too close for comfort to the condenser and radiator?

There is not a lot of information out there about the different flavors of I/C's available to us, so I may just settle on the DI tried and true by our good friend Rich.

I look forward to the thoughts of other FTE members in the future.

 

The only two aftermarket ones I know anything about are the DI and Hypermax Tapercore. I almost sprung for the Hypermax on the Excursion rebuild with the intent to install it in the F-250 then take the DI from the F-250 and put that in the Excursion. Since the Excursion isn't used much for towing. But that didn't fit in the budget. Since I had good results with the DI in the F-250, I decided to do the same in the Excursion.

 

W have used a 7.3, 6.0 and aftermarket mishimoto 6.0 cooler with 160s and hgearheaded tuning.... I personally do not think the gain is worth the cost with the mishimoto. 50 degrees is stretching the additional cooling from the mishimoto over the 7.3 cooler.

I know you are not interested in the t4 setups, but a s369 will blow the panties of the 38R or KC38.

When you do make the jump, the increased flow, and revised tuning will be a nice change. I have ran water injection for 100k miles now, it initially was for an egt band aid, now its more for cleaning purposes and hot tune mountain pass towing. Average on straight water was 100 degrees cooler and a 15% gain in manifold pressure. I do not run methanol unless its winter.

Congratulations on the new mobile traveler!