i gotta tell ya bud from experience time and time again and i am SURE everyone on here can attest to it as well

1) when you are budgeting for your build or project take your final number and double it! sometimes even triple it that gives you the wort case

2)from the time you start into it there pretty much aint a gosh darn thing that goes right... thats why we belong to this forum hah so others can help because it already happened to them!

3) dont even set a time when you think you are gonna finish cause that wont happen

4) finally have a very understanding wife or girl friend

 

for what you are wanting to do i would advice with goin with the most high performance pump he has!

 

OP: For dead on reliability with wild power, build a big P-pumped 12V cummins, and swap it in there. The IDI's will never hold a candle to a properly tuned 12V. Pump mods/tuning for the P-pump are free until you get into bigger delivery valves, and you can build a LOT of power before getting there. Likewise, injectors are cheap, and through some creative swapping, a bigger turbo can be had pretty reasonable.

FTFY... I just finished putting a '94 P-pumped 12V into a my '93 F250, and I don't regret it for a second. I also used the NV4500 as the ZF5's will barely withstand a PSD. (Not trying to start a opinion war, just what I've seen) Besides that, sticking with the NV4500 did not require an aftermarket block plate & custom clutch set up. I can go down to my local clutch shop, tell them I need a dodge clutch kit, and be reclutched in a day with off the shelf parts.


You're comparing dry/naked weight of the cummins to the wet/dressed weight of the IDI there. A dressed 12V is a around 12-1250lbs, and if you lift it with the transmission, you're quickly approaching 1500lbs of floating cast iron. It can get a touch hairy

 

I know I was being very conservative on the Cummins. They're substantially heavier than the IDI fully dressed. They have huge parts in them. Did you affix your KDP yet? I believe I will go the route you've chosen when my IDI pukes.

 

Really? For 600ft-lbs at the rear? Shoot, maybe I ought to just go the Cummins or PSD route if the IDI is THAT difficult to get power out of... What if you wanted 1000ft-lbs at the rear like the Cummins or PSD can do? haha

I guess I'm leaning towards a Cummins over the PSD, just because I won't have to do a tone of wiring... So I've got a few questions - How do you fix the NV4500 5th gear issue, and how much $$ to do it? How much modding required to get 600ft-lbs (RWTQ) out of a Cummins?

Also, since I do have an early '99 PSD, with MOST of the wiring harness, what would I be looking at to make it a stand-alone system, so I don't have to fumble with the whole trucks wiring - I guess to be able to run it on the stand? Anyone have a very detailed & clear wiring diagram of the PSD system? I already know the differences between the early '99 and the late '99.

Thanks for all the input

 

i know some guys just weld the 5th gear nut so it cant unturn.......

 

FWIW, it costs a lot of money and takes a lot of work to get a PSD to perform like a commonly modded Cummins. At least on PSD trucks it does. IF you decide to install your PSD, perform all of the required common mods during your installation. Search in the '99-'03 7.3L PSD forum for common mods. They'll allow you to really start building your motor. There are several common mods. If you don't do them, good luck.

It's my understanding the PSD runs from a couple of different computer modules. One is the ECM at the engine and the other is behind the gauge cluster in the dash. You'll need a vehicle speed sensor at the rear axle for the speedo and odo to work. Everything is electronic and operates off of sensors. Ford recalled the "black" CPS and installed a "grey" one. The grey one causes undesirable cylinder rotation. Lots of folks hunted down and bought OEM black CPS's to make it quit. You can buy a black International CPS from Riffraff Diesel. If you have the early '99 turbo setup, I believe you're all set with the compressor wheel being the older style to help assist with reducing or eliminating turbo surge. My '00 has the later style compressor wheel and surges when pulling grade because of the open air intake element "mod" I installed per the aforementioned forum. I have to install a wicked wheel (older style wheel) to make it quit. If you really want to put power to the ground from the PSD, you'll want a ball bearing turbo = $$$. You'll want stage 1 injectors and that high performance HPOP, then a DP Tuner. If you run an automatic, good luck. You'll puke that with the quickness unless you install one of those trans-go tugger kits or buy a BTS transmission.

I believe your PSD has forged rods, as does mine, which are more desirable for building power. IDK, I use mine for work, so I don't need to roast the rear wheels. Regardless of your decision, post a thread of the build.

 

If it were me id go the idi route. Cost id estimate around 8,000 to build a 450hp idi doin all the work yourself. It is possible for 1200hp been done with lots of cash. Just my 2 cents.

 

I just asked the question a week or so back about how much the 6.9L engine weighs... I got responses in the 1,200 lbs to 1,400 lbs range for a complete engine! Where did you get the 920 lbs figure? Is that for a complete engine or???

 

Wow, $8k is steep for a motor rebuild. I'm going for a $3k build regardless of route, but I'm willing to put a LITTLE more into the IDI if I can get it to do it.
Here's how I'm figuring:

Brand new heads w/ refurbished turbo valves, ready to run: $340 each ($680)
Pressure test block: $120 (as quoted by AIMS)
Sleeve block (if necessary): $100 per cylinder (as quoted; $100-800)
Mains: aprox. $150
Rings: aprox. $150
Moose Mister injectors: $920
Moose injection pump: $400~$700 (as quoted by agnem)
Turbo rebuild kit: ??? can't find good price, current best $250
Upgraded turbo housing: ???
Intercooler: Probably be a pick-n-pull item (PSD) with custom tubing...
Misc.: ~$250

I plan on re-using rods & pistons. OR, using PSD rods if I can (which I have, so $0.00). I already have a 3 inch down pipe and 3 inch all the way back, may try to do a 4 inch.

Mods to heads, unknown $$ if I have AIMS do it, but I might be able to mod them myself.

What am I forgetting? Total as it stands: ~$3,000-$4,500
I figure for a Cummins swap w/ few upgrades stands about 3k as well.

Would that setup (or a lightly modded Cummins) turn out the numbers I'm looking for? (600ft-lbs RWTQ, don't care about HP)

 

Google NV4500 5th gear nut. The aftermarket has developed a very effective replacement nut. A good dose of loc-tite on both the nut & the allen head set screws, and you're done. And the job itself is about a 2-3hr job that you can do in your driveway.

To get 600ft-lbs at the rear wheels? A "0" plate in the pump & a set of 90hp injectors would get you close on the cheap, but its prone to be kinda smokey. A bigger turbo will clean up the exhaust, and put you past the mark, I reckon.

My wrenching buddy is putting down over 1000ft/lbs (with dyno sheet) out of his dragster off of some 370 marine sticks with a big single (55-60lbs of boost) and about 22* of timing on an otherwise stock 95 block.



mechelement- No I didn't attack my KDP yet. I screwed up by not doing it when I had the motor sitting on the ground, and I realized it after I had the truck put together. In my defense, I was so excited to see my Cummins going into the F250 (and get out of that damn dodge) that good ideas like that got overlooked

 

That thing can reek havoc on a Cummins. Are you on Diesel Bombers? Go there and join. Then join your local board. The guys here throw bomb parties all the time and just wrench on trucks all day. KDP jobs are common.

 

You're planning on sleeving? Good luck.....hope it lasts better sleeved 7.3's than many of them do!!

 

as long as they do the machining right, their should be no problems sleeving the block........

 

ONLY if the block needs it... Mine may have cylinder pin-holes, I was getting oil in antifreeze and loosing antifreeze to the motor (showed up on cap & crankcase breather lines). It wasn't the oil cooler

Why wouldn't it? Whats the downside?

If I have to get another block, I may as well just do a Cummins swap then...

That doesn't sound too bad.

What kind of drivability would I be looking at for either the Cummins or the IDI at these power levels? This is a daily driver & tow rig... lol I wheel it a little, but I want to get an FJ40 for that eventually. Its too nice to wheel a lot.