Written a thread a month back regarding a hard to start issue. The truck is '05 with 120 k. I had a cyl #1 with an inbalance code - figured stiction issue. Took it to a reputable shop last week for an EGR clean (system was full of crude), replaced #1 injector and updated to the latest programs (FICM, PCM etc.).

This didn't cure the issue so they had done a compression test, number #1 cyl . Came back 100 psi. (low compression). What they figure is the injector caused the cyl to run hot and torch the piston.

The bill $4000 to replace the piston ($2700) just in labor. Plus the $1300 I already owe for the inj replacment etc.

What I really question is Ford replaced the #1 injector last year under warranty. In less than 15k the injector is being replaced again this time with a burnt piston. Curious whether this cylinder was down when Ford replaced it last year ?

Appreciate any feedback. Worried it may be time to sell as my pockets aren't deep enough.

 

Anyone heard of an injector failing to take out a piston ?

 

If an injector overfuels the cylinder and the engine is run under hot conditions for a period of time, it will melt the piston and eventually burn all the way through it. The injector does this when it sticks open and pours fuel into the cyliner, or the tip is cracked.

This failure is usually indicated by white smoke, a miss, and a knocking sound, called fuel knock.

What were your symptoms this time around for the injector replacement?

 

Adamtheman16 - Appreciate your response.

When I bought the truck a year and a half ago I got dupped. Truck was warm when I test drove it. After I bought it, cold starts there was a rough idle for 45sec. until it got warm. Lots of blue smoke. The joker that owned the truck before me could of ran it this way for a long time .....

Took it to the dealership Ford replaced #1 and #2 injectors under warranty. I drove the truck for 8 months after that - had difficult starts all winter. Never ran 100%. (I assume the EGR was blocked at this time, didn't know enough to check it until I got on FTE).

All summer had trouble with cold starts. Chased glow plugs - EGR etc. Truck ran fine when warm - no loss of power or hesitation. Last month got a code for #1 injector inbalance. Changed the oil - went away but came back 1K later. Note: no smoke or any real indication the truck was hurt. Find out now low compression is now the cause.

How quickly can an injector take out a piston ? Is it done on idle or just when pulling under severe conditions ? Is it common ?? With all the issues associated with stiction I'm suprised there isn't more piston failures .....

 

With the symtoms you have, I wouldn't say the injector took out the cylinder. You also have to remember that low compression doesn't mean piston ring or cylinder wall problem. Could also be a lifter or valve problem. Lifters are known to go out on these engines. The lifter roller needle bearings fail and fall out. Usually they get sucked up in the low pressure oil pump and cause a no start or a catastrophic failure.

If the dealer diagnosed it correctly and checked for a bad valve or lifter, then it is probably a piston ring or cylinder problem. That being said, 100 psi is enough to warrant more than just piston damage as the cylinder wall may also be damaged. No way to tell until disassembled. Usually an injector causing a piston to fail is destruction of the piston and 0 psi. It is possible it was overfueling and melted the piston and damaged ring lands due to high pressure and heat on the crown of the piston.

An injector, if the nozzle is cracked, can take a piston out in a hurry hot under load. At idle, it would take longer as heat is not built enough to cause the piston to melt.

 

[quote=adamtheman16;9316158]Could also be a lifter or valve problem. Lifters are known to go out on these engines. The lifter roller needle bearings fail and fall out. Usually they get sucked up in the low pressure oil pump and cause a no start or a catastrophic failure.quote]

I had roller bearing failure on my well maintained no mods '06 @ 40k. My dealer said roller bearing failure was not common. He didn't say lifters, but I think that was what caused it. My truck sounded like this:

YouTube - 2006 F250 POWERSTOKE 6.0 ENGINE KNOCKING

How common is lifter failure and what if anything can you do about it? Synthetic Oil? I have a remaned motor now and I'm waiting for it to blow up.

 

The shop checked for valves and they checked out okay. They had done a crankcase pressure check which didn't hold.

Scored cylinder means another $2Gs out of my wallet !!! Not to mention should I do head studs, EGR etc.

If the injector had a broken tip would this not have been picked up by the ford mechanic ?

 

So you're saying you are up to 6k already???? no way in He** would I pay that for a 6.0. I would much rather pay 10k and drop a cummins in it and have some piece of mind. The 6.0 is a piece of sh**, pure and simple.

 

Yup, quoted 4G for the repair and another 2G if the cylinder is scuffed (complete engine tear down) so 6G plus any updates. My truck is next in line for the hoist. There just finishing up an '04 PSD (new *used* motor). His bill is 10G !!

They are going to pull the head first to check the cylinder. Decide whether to proceed.

I've been reading FTE for months and hoping to h*ll I wouldn't become a 5G member. Totally bent over on this one .... what do you do ? The truck did run okay when I dropped it off.

I would really like to know what the *&^% took this piston out.

 

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...or-fail-4.html
heres some pics of a whole side melted down on a 6.4. same basic thing

 

Good pics, not to sure what I'm looking for ? Is the center cap of the piston melted causing low compression ?

Any idea what causes this ? In these situations are the cylinders scuffed ?? Valves damaged etc. ??

Really appreciate your feedback as I'm really close to pulling the plug on doing this rebuild.

 

all the pistons are damaged to some degree. if you look at the tops you can see metal transfer, and the edges of the pistons are melted. also you can see the head looks rough, that is also from metal transfer. so both the pistons and head is junk.
this one was odd. it looks like it was caused by one of 2 things. either a bunch of debris got in to the fuel system and hung the pizo stacks on that back or the pcm freeked out.
this happened durring a rain storm.

 

Or you can go this route this is what i will do 03-07 6.0L FORD POWERSTROKE STAGE II CRATE MOTOR -

 

Unfortunetly my pockets aren't that deep. I appreciate the link but if I'm in to a new motor I'm out. Sell the truck for what ever its worth and put the 10G towards a gas truck.

 

[QUOTE=hank89;9316384]The lifter roller bearing failure is common, when you see a lot of these engine in and out of your shop. Cheezit can probably account for quite a few. I have seen at least 5 in my shop, and I live in Alaska...and I work at an International Dealership, not a Ford dealership. There are a lot more of these engines in the fords than in the Internationals.

Our parts guy at work just dropped 10,000 on a new engine that we installed for him. Diesel engines aren't cheap, no matter what you do. I seriously wish they would get rid of the parent bore cylinder and go with wet liners. Its only a 6 to 7 grand job to rebuild an International I6 because of this.

If the injector tip was broken, then YOU would have been the first to know, so I don't think you have a broken injector tip. It is really a matter of getting in there and seeing what happened.

The one thing I am not getting is if the cylinder compression is 100 psi, that is not near enough pressure to fire the fuel in the cylinder, which means you would have had a noticeable miss and some serious white smoke, but you said there was no such thing, right?. If this was a a gas engine, 100 psi would have been noticeable to me, but maybe not the driver. A diesel, you would have noticed it.