Ok, so bought my 51 F1 knowing there was no title and VIN badge was missing. Trying to figure out if anyone knows if Utah will Register it as a 51 or newer car with no VIN. I found where the vin was stamped on Frame. However the F1 is legible and looks like I can see the last number, but cannot see anything in between. So I have bill of sale and no title or VIN. I know on kit cars they are registered the current year built, so even if they look like an older car they are registered as a 2010 or whatever. So when I go get a new title are they going to make it a 2010 or a 1951 since it actually is a 1951 truck?

Rob

 

There's no plate on the passenger side of the firewall?

Strong vinegar will help bring out the #'s on the frame, get it to bare metal.

 

I can't speak for Utah, but most states will not allow you to register or title any vehicle that has the vin tags removed and the fact that you don't have any paper trail for the vehicle. What do you think will happen if they do get the vin and find the truck was stolen or is currently registered to someone else.
The point I am trying to make is that it is never a good idea to involve yourself in such a questionable vehicle. If it does turn out that the vehicle was at some point reported stolen, you are now the one in trouble.

 

Every state is different.

First I'd make an effort to make the frame numbers more readable.

On the early 51 there was a "Patent Data Plate" with a serial number on it, but if your frame numbers start with "F1" then you won't have the firewall mounted plate as the "F1" is the later serial numbering scheme. There was, however, a "Rating Plate" on the inside glove box door that may have the Serial Number on it. Both vintages had this plate - although the style of plate changed significantly in mid 1951.

Today most states are looking for that frame stamp. As a matter of fact California will not accept a Serial Number plate in a case like this you HAVE TO have the frame stamp inspected.

If you can make it legible, your fine, use that one. However, if you can't, your not in such terrible dire straits. Most DMVs understand that older vehicles are subject to corrosion, etc. and if yo have a bill of sale from the previous owner, but don't have a title or registration, they may assign yo a new VIN that you will have to stamp in the frame.

I would look for the Rating Plate on the Glove Box door (Utah may accept that - who knows) or do some more scrubbing on that frame.

Then, I'd go to the DMV and ask to speak to a supervisor and tell them what you have and ask what you need to do.

As broke as most states are, they are getting pretty lenient with things so they can get your money!

 

No plate on the firewall. It's an old farm truck. Has 0006 painted on both sides of the doors, so not sure if it even ever left the farm. If I can't register it for on reason or another it will be turned into a Drag Truck only I guess. Was planning on heading to DMV next week when I have a day off to speak with them. Thanks for the input.

Rob

 

If you can get it registered, they would register it as a 1951. It's not a kit car, it has real 1951 vintage chassis and body. Talk to your vehicle licensing folks and find out what you need to do to get it registered. You will most likely need a state patrol inspection. They will run your serial number through their data base to make sure it's legally owned. They may place a state-issued tag on your firewall matching the frame number, or issue their own. Many states, like Washington, will refuse to inspect it unless it is "running and roadworthy." That makes titling projects a royal pita. You want to know this before you go dumping a ton of money into it to get it running, only to find later it is stolen and you lose everything. Ask your questions and let us know what you find out. I think it would be interesting if we had a special thread that just deals with the different states' procedures for dealing with vehicles with lost titles.

 

I had a 1950 F-1 truck a couple years ago that the prior owner had titled as a 1950 but for some reason they assigned a new tag (title vin # ) which the owner was then supposed to rivet to the fire wall. (like 52Merc mentions) since the firewall tag was missing. I guess the owner didn't know where to look on the frame for the actual number? either way in utah it is pretty easy to get a new number assigned or like Julie mentioned just use the number on the frame. either way it will be titled as a 51, as long as thats what your paperwork says.
Hell you could probably call it a 41 and nobody at the DMV or the police would know the difference.

cheers

Josh

 

You could also seek out a title and VIN plates from another 1951 F1 truck that has been parted out. I've sold a few of these "historical documents" in the past from trucks that I parted out.

 

I concure with Ilya. Haved use this process also .They just want to see a series of letters & numbers . The person will not know how to read them , that is , what they mean . You could have a title and vin plate from a F-3 on a F-1 and the local gestapo wouldn't know the difference . Believe me this does work .

 

Sure, right up until someone checks to verify the numbers with the only legal ones on the frame rail, and they don't match. Depending on where you live, that's grounds for immediate impoundment, at your expense, until your state officials figure out why they don't and what they're going to do with you and your truck. Contrary to popular belief, the cops have books that explain what the numbers mean and where they're located on each vehicle. It's a federal offense to alter or otherwise tamper with VIN's. That include falsifying numbers. This is how stolen vehicles are trafficked, and is a highly discouraged procedure.

 

Oops... I forgot the disclaimer.

But in all seriousness, Wayne has a valid point.

 

He does.

But, just tell them you are an Illegal Immigrant or Muslim and they will leave you alone (maybe even offer you some food stamps).

 

It is all relative. It depends on who you are dealing with and what hoops you are willing to jump through. In the worst case, you will have to apply for a state assigned VIN or use the VIN on the frame as the basis for a self assembled vehicle title. For either you will need a bill(s) of sale that have numbers that match the numbers on the vehicle or parts they cover, with sellers name, address, and signature. The details are different in each state, but I have found that there is usually someone in a local title bureau or state DMV office who will point you in the right direction.

Even with mismatched parts (frame stamp numbers different from ID plate numbers), with proper documentation things can get done.

And there are also businesses and lawyers that specialize in getting things titled. One time I paid a $150 retainer to a lawyer who walked me through the process of getting a "grey market" vehicle titled, and it was money well spent.

 

Lot's of good info. I am heading to the DMV on Tuesday and let everyone know what they say. I figure it will get titled, it is just a matter of what hoop I will need to jump through.

Thanks Again,
Rob

 

Sorry been a while for an update but work taking up a lot of time. So got to the DMV and was told not to tough to get this done but a few steps to go Through.

1.Certificate of Inspection--DMV, Certified safety inspector(Mechanic), officer of the law, etc. needs to take a look. Was told have them state that there is no VIN on body or frame on the form. Turn in form and they will issue a new VIN.

2. Once new Vin given must put new badge on body and punch VIN on frame. Have the above mention people reinspect that VIN is on vehicle. and fill out another Certificate Statement.

3. Fill out a Public Insufficient Evidence of Ownership. Which consists of the following"
a. Photos on all sides, Interior, engine compartment.
b.Ownership statement form, which consists of explanation of of why no title etc.
c. Bill of sale.
d.Application for registration/title.

Was told with the age and condition of vehicle, and that it was not purchased for over $1,000 it should not be a problem.

This seems like a lot, but it is only about 4 pages of forms total, with Inspection form being done twice, and with a friend that is a Sheriff and lives 2 minutes from me I can grab him and drag him over at any time. Besides that not sure how long each process takes for the to give thumbs up or down. will give updates after each process goes through.

Thanks,
Rob