I have been planning on working on the steering/front end once I got the engine out. Well, that happened yesterday, so here I am. I was planning on doing the Toyota swap just because, then I thought, if you're gonna go, go all out and do it with a power steering setup. But now that i'm looking at it I think the box might be fine. If I turn the steering wheel back and forth there is 2-3 inches of play before the wheels react to what i'm doing. But I know the tie rod is obviously bent and I assume all the front end bushings and what not are totally shot. I'm guessing that when I replace all that and maybe tighten the box adjustment (is there an adjustment on the stock box?) that it should be in really good condition.

That being said, I won't be driving this until next summer and i'll have some time to work on it, i'm just wondering if I should go ahead with the power steering swap or just plan on keeping the stock box. For some more info I plan on going with an aftermarket column and a 15" steering wheel.

TIA,
Joe

 

I'm curious to see what everyone has to say as well, because I'll eventually have to make the same choice. I've driven a truck with Armstrong steering before and while it was a bit of a pain in parking lots, for the most part it wasn't the end of the world. On the other hand, it WAS a pain.

If one decides not to install PS during a build and then later regrets it, how difficult is it to install on a completed truck? From what I have been able to read on it, it seems like it should be an upgrade which can be done relatively easily later on down the road if a guy changes his mind... am I wrong?

 

Why dont you check out the jag ifs-price is right-p/s disc brakes-it is almost a bolt in install.A lot of guys here have done it.these guys will be along shortly & they can really help you out.good luck with your truck

 

I think the steering shaft up the column from the original box is all one piece, no joint, so if you are going with a after-market column some serious splicin’ and dicing’ will be in order. That is not necessarily an easy project and if you are going to the trouble you might as well change to a PS box (Or bite the bullet….MII)

 

The way I see it, the only reason to go with a Toyota box swap is to add power steering. To swap in a manual Toyota box seems absolutely pointless. You gain nothing, and created a whole lot of work without any advantage.

When stock boxes wear, my understanding is it's bushings and gears that wear, and no amount of "adjusting" is going to fix that. If you have excessive play, it's rebuild time. But before going that drastic, (not that it's that big of a deal to do) I'd make sure all of my other components are up to par. King pins, tie rod ends, drag link, etc. If five different parts are worn just a little, it adds up to a whole lot of slop. But 2 - 3 inches isn't that bad, imho. I've seen, and driven, way worse.

If you want to run a smaller diameter steering wheel, you might want to seriously consider the power steering addition. The reason for the large wheel is so you have the leverage necessary to turn the thing, 'armstrong' style.

 

How right is the price and how much "almost" is involved

Hmmn, I thought I read somewhere on here that the reason for the manual swap was because the Toy box had a different ratio (i.e. less turns from lock to lock) maybe i'm making that up? And I think the article on here says it's cheaper than rebuilding the original, but after all the bracketry/specialized pitman work, it must be a tight margin.

Good point about the smaller steering wheel, I will be compounding the problem a little I guess.

It seems that the ps swap may be worth it, i'm certainly leaning that direction after hearing you guys' input. If I go that route is a good OEM box worth anything towards the purchase of new parts? The Toy article makes it seem like there's almost none left out there.

 

Well there is another reason to go with the Toyota box that I learned the hard way - exhaust.

That stock box and front end will work wonderfully if it is in good working order. Mine is all newly rebuilt and it's amazing the difference. I'm very happy with it - from drive performance, ease, and steering standpoints - you should have NO problems.

BUT here's the thing that's gonna bite ya if you are putting in a non stock big block (FE, Cleveland/Modified, 428 or 460 engine) you will not have enough room between your motor mounts and the steering box/frame rail and engine to run any exaust through there

You will have to either loop it forward or go over the frame if you leave the stock steering box in.

If you are sticking with the 226, you'll be just fine!

 

The 226 is already out, going with a 302 and (from what I understand about reading on here) probably the Summit block hugger headers. Fitment issues?

I thought you had a 390 in yours? That's a small block right?

 

We were in the same dilemma. The stock steering seemed to work OK, so why go to the trouble of putting in a new steering box. We ultimately decided to go with the Toyota set up to get power steering. When we took the stock box out and took it apart it became very clear that we did the right thing. The gears in the stock original box were showing pretty sever signs of wear and the gear teeth had clear signs of fatigue. So in my opinion, if you opt to stay with the original box you should have it rebuilt.

T900

 

You should be ok with the 302. It sits farther forward in the engine compartment than a big block, will have different motor mounts, and an extra inch and a half between the motor mount and steering box I didn't have - that'll be enough.

Yes I have a 390 and no a 390 FE is not a small block.

 

I'd go with the Toyota P/S conversion - especially if you're going to run an aftermarket column. You could cut off the sector shaft on the stock box and put a u-joint on it to adapt to an aftermarket column, but that's a lot of work for no gain. With the smaller steering wheel you're planning, the Toy box will make a nice package. The needed Toy steering gear is out there. They are pretty durable, so a used gear should be a good bet. They are tough to find in salvage yards, but they pop up on eBay regularly. I think they normally go for $100-$120 on there used. Be patient and wait for a deal. Another source is pirate4x4.com. Hang around on the Toy forum. The guys with the trucks that these gears were found on HATE them and are always swapping them out for a later model gear when they jack their trucks up. They're usually willing to make a deal to get the old one out of their garage.

As for the original gear, give Classic Haulers a call. They are always looking for original cores to rebuild. I bet they'd work something out with you on some parts you'll need for the Toy swap.

 

Thanks for the info, very helpful. I guess I know what i'm doing next! It will be nice to have ps in this because of it's being a DD and since I know i'll be going to power discs anyway it really just makes sense. Let the front end work commence!

 

On your solid front axle, you keep adding stuff, anything else? Yes, that works, so you will have power disc brakes, power steering and an aftermarket wheel right?

You can get that AND independent front suspension with Jag or a Mustang II type aftermarket kit that even the most die hard straight axle fan would approve of with NO steering box (or clearance issues).

 

That's a good point and those are both viable options, but where do you stop? He does want to try to drive this thing next year. A complete MII package is going to be 2G's out the door plus a lot of extensive welding and fab work to install boxing plates and the crossmember. The Jag looks like a nice setup and is apparently quite a bit easier to install, but first you've got to find a Jaguar either in a salvage yard or for sale cheap enough that you can afford to cut it up. A 30-year-old Jag in rough enough shape to meet either of those criteria is probably going to need some front end parts replaced also. By the time you've got it bought, the frame rails boxed, and worn out parts replaced, it's still about a $1200 project and requires fab and welding work.

The straight axle, on the other hand, can have all the spring bushings, king pins, and tie rod ends replaced in a couple weekends for cheap. And then you can go drive it. When you've saved up for disk brakes, you can install a swap kit in a weekend - and then go drive it. After you've scrounged and bought the parts for the Toyota P/S swap, you can do that in a weekend, too. And then go drive it. The truck was never out of commission for months at a time, you never had to save up a couple thousand bucks at once, a welder was never necessary, and the truck will ride and handle just about as well as with IFS. Careful shopping and scrounging can get this stuff all done for under $1000. IFS swaps are nice, but they don't make sense for all of us.

 

take this as you will .... i have been looking at and planning several " upgrades " to my truck and keep being reminded that if you change one thing you have to change ten more to accomodate the first modification .....................