Keep stock steering or upgrade?
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,346
Likes: 4
From: Rapid City, SoDak
I've looked at IFS pretty hard and I don't think it's what i'm after. As has been mentioned on FTE before most of our trucks that are being driven are straight axle'd and most of our trucks that are IFS are at various stages of being built or torn apart. And I know that's up to the individual and their skills and budget. But this is a fairly low budget build and comparing the straight axle w/goodies vs. all new IFS setup/fab/time I don't see spending the extra money on the ride itself. I don't expect much out of the ride itself and I think that by taking out a few leaves and installing much better modern shocks I should get that, not much, lol but it's enough for what i'm looking at.
You know, this is the opposite of the discussion that happens over on the Cummins forum for my current DD (2001 Dodge Cummins). All those guys love Dodge's and Ford's because of the solid front axle and make fun of chevy's weak IFS all the time. I understand that it's two different applications and I probably won't be hooking this Ford up to 15,000lbs anytime soon, it's just interesting to discuss both sides of it on different forums.
You know, this is the opposite of the discussion that happens over on the Cummins forum for my current DD (2001 Dodge Cummins). All those guys love Dodge's and Ford's because of the solid front axle and make fun of chevy's weak IFS all the time. I understand that it's two different applications and I probably won't be hooking this Ford up to 15,000lbs anytime soon, it's just interesting to discuss both sides of it on different forums.
Post Fiend
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 7,641
Likes: 21
From: Poway, Ca.
I actually bought a MII IFS to install but couldn't because after spending $1700 for custom headers to go over the frame (not enough space between motor mounts and stock steering box) I couldn't install it.
So I sold it and completely rebuilt my stock suspension and steering.
It's just like Joe said - you are doing some, but still driving, and you can buy what you can afford at the time and still drive. I did not convert to Disc brakes though and I find my stock drums work JUST FINE, even when loaded and towing my trailer - brakes are another one of those "you gotta convert to discs or you will die" debates I'm not 100% sold on.
But long story short, I have a 2002 Ranger and my 51 F1 rides and steers just as good as the Ranger (if not slightly better) on the stock front end. Daily driver, no power steering, no disc brakes. (but I'm thinking about discs with the next brake change because 51 F1 front drums are almost $100 a piece now)
So yo have a comperable drive, on substantially less $$$, the ability to rebuild a little at a time on what budget you have, and you are driving it while fixing it.
ALL good points Joe!
So I sold it and completely rebuilt my stock suspension and steering.
It's just like Joe said - you are doing some, but still driving, and you can buy what you can afford at the time and still drive. I did not convert to Disc brakes though and I find my stock drums work JUST FINE, even when loaded and towing my trailer - brakes are another one of those "you gotta convert to discs or you will die" debates I'm not 100% sold on.
But long story short, I have a 2002 Ranger and my 51 F1 rides and steers just as good as the Ranger (if not slightly better) on the stock front end. Daily driver, no power steering, no disc brakes. (but I'm thinking about discs with the next brake change because 51 F1 front drums are almost $100 a piece now)
So yo have a comperable drive, on substantially less $$$, the ability to rebuild a little at a time on what budget you have, and you are driving it while fixing it.
ALL good points Joe!
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,346
Likes: 4
From: Rapid City, SoDak
Which brakes did you go with?
Laughing Gas
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 966
Likes: 27
From: Missouri
I just put the toyota setup on my 53 with the the truck all together motor and everything. I kept the original steering column just figured out the length and cut it off. The kit from Mid50 comes with a new centerin lower bearing if you order the right kit. GO to my galleries for pictures. I am planning on getting mid50's down and fowarding springs but without the reverse eyes because I do not want mine in the weeds.
Cargo Master
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,571
Likes: 22
From: Oxford, Indiana
NO! The '80-'84 4x4 box with a horizontal pitman shaft is all that will work. It is easily identified by the 4-bolt mount straddling the pitman shaft that bolts it to the TOP of the frame rail. It looks like this:
Sometime in '85, Toyo went to a cross steer setup on the 4x4 trucks and redesigned the steering gear completely. The new gear had a vertical pitman shaft and bolted to the SIDE of the frame rail. This redesigned box that WILL NOT fit looks like this:
Incidentally, there was no RAV4 in 1989. The first year for RAV4 production was 1996 and it didn't have a steering gearbox at all. It was rack and pinion.
Sometime in '85, Toyo went to a cross steer setup on the 4x4 trucks and redesigned the steering gear completely. The new gear had a vertical pitman shaft and bolted to the SIDE of the frame rail. This redesigned box that WILL NOT fit looks like this:
Incidentally, there was no RAV4 in 1989. The first year for RAV4 production was 1996 and it didn't have a steering gearbox at all. It was rack and pinion.
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I accidentally hit the "submit post" button before I finished and had to go back and edit.
Thread Starter
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Fleet Mechanic
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,346
Likes: 4
From: Rapid City, SoDak
HaHa, oops!
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 15,882
Likes: 88
From: Durham NC
IMHO go for the Toy PS box, especially if you want to use an aftermarket column and 15" wheel that's a perfect setup you'll be very satisfied with. Don't use a PS pump from a disc brake application, use an earlier pump or the vitually universal Saginaw pump. Boxes and pumps can be found inexpensively at Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market . Be sure to get the hose fittings with the box, the return line fitting is a non standard size.
You can purchase a pitman arm for the PS box, but would need to fab your own for the Manual Toy box (different splines).
I like the solid bar stock mount Mid Fifty sells over the bent plate ones. You'll need to drill new mounting holes in the frame to match the 53-56 mount pattern tho (easy job).
You can purchase a pitman arm for the PS box, but would need to fab your own for the Manual Toy box (different splines).
I like the solid bar stock mount Mid Fifty sells over the bent plate ones. You'll need to drill new mounting holes in the frame to match the 53-56 mount pattern tho (easy job).
Junior User
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
From: Chicago, IL
BlueOvalRanger, Thank you for your help and the pictures. This helps me alot.
Ax Racer and BlueOvalRanger - You both seem to have a handle on which type of vehicles are good for steering box donations. Other than the 80-85 Toyota 4X4's, are their any other donors you could suggest. I have a 1960 F100 SWB with a 302 in it. I believe I want to keep it Manual Steering for now(Keeps people from wanting to borrow it). I know I can have the existing re-built, but I kind of liked what I read about the benifits of the Toyota Converstion. ie turn ratio. lvin4jc33 mentioned using one from a Bronco. Other than it being a Ford part, is there any major difference?
Ax Racer and BlueOvalRanger - You both seem to have a handle on which type of vehicles are good for steering box donations. Other than the 80-85 Toyota 4X4's, are their any other donors you could suggest. I have a 1960 F100 SWB with a 302 in it. I believe I want to keep it Manual Steering for now(Keeps people from wanting to borrow it). I know I can have the existing re-built, but I kind of liked what I read about the benifits of the Toyota Converstion. ie turn ratio. lvin4jc33 mentioned using one from a Bronco. Other than it being a Ford part, is there any major difference?