Kenny,

Try swapping the blower motor relay wth the IDM power relay.

 

ill go out and try that now Robin....

Plan as of now is for Jason to come over tomorrow and were gonna mess around with AE.

anyone know what we should try/monitor?

 

just swapped relays, 301 with 303.....still nothing....

why does the oil pressure guage go up some times and not others? and the cel comes on when cranking some times but not others.......

 

This is a good "No Start" trouble shooting guide.
__________________________________________________ _____________________________

Originally posted by Dave (Golfer) on PSN 01-20-2010 Thanks Dave

its nevvvvver the oil pump...seriously.

I see sooooooooooooooo many guys (dealerships included) that see "no ICP" or some ICP codes in a scantool...and toss HPOP's on truck after truck...when it is either an IPR or an injector (poppet valve) issue.

If you hook up the scantool, and monitor ICP (psi) while cranking...you'll see IPR% (duty cycle) climb & climb 15% key on..20, 30, 40, 55%, higher..the increase in IPR% means that the PCM is requesting ICP pressure to increase...

so ALSO watch ICP(psi) and if it comes up to only 180-250psi or so and stays there...then it's the IPR hung open (bypassing oil back to the oil pan through the front cover) such that only minimal psi can be made.

If the ICP is VERY low...like under 60psi...then it could be injector (poppets) pissing oil (under the VC's)..which is typical for injector with more than 180-200k miles.

if ICP climbs above 550-600..then it will probably climb much higher (15-1800+) and it is most likely going to be an electrical issue.

If his scantool will not connect then its a PCM or chip issue (remove the chip if you have one & haven't removed it yet)

if the scantool connects AND you have >600ICP then look at the datastream for a RPM reading.

if the scantool picks up an RPM signal and it seems accurate....then the CPS is good.

If no RPM on the scantool, replace CPS.

If you have RPM (on scantool, not just on dash)...AND have ICP >600, then run an (key on, eng off) injector "buzz test"...

the buzz test is nothing more than a continuity test from the PCM, through the IDM, and to & from each injector solenoid.

LISTEN to each inj buzz....do they all sound the same? nice & crisp?

if the test passes (and you audibly heard them all)...then wiring is good, IDM is good, HPOP is good...CPS is good...then it could be a fuel issue. gasoline, water, etc...

I wouldn't mention it if I haven't seen it myself numerous times...

any chance this no start began with 10-20miles after a fillup?

holler if you need help troubleshooting. take care~ Dave
__________________________________________________ ______________________

Hears some good info also:

7.3L Powerstroke Starting Requirements:
<DIR>Battery voltage a minimum of 10.5 volts while cranking
RPM at least 100 while cranking. If no tach movement suspect CPS
If you have a scan tool ICP should be 500 PSI ± 25 PSI and fuel
pulse width should be 1 to 6 milliseconds.

The above requirements assume the following:

Correct oil level, oil type and pressure
Correct type of fuel
Correct fuel pressure (53 PSI per Ford spec)
Sufficient air supply (clean air filter & unobstructed intake)
Proper oil level in HPOP reservoir (1 to ¾ inch from top)
Proper glow plug relay and glow plug operation (in cold weather)
Proper injection timing (PCM controlled)
</DIR>

 

I am not sure if the tests you've already run rule out a bad idm but this sounds a lot like what my truck did when the idm failed. Try to find a spare or pull one from someone elses truck and see if that fixes it. As far as I know the only way to confirm it is to try a different idm. Good luck.

 

thanks robin, that will help a bunch.

already replaced idm and pcm....

 

Okay, I am at Kenny's right now and we have some results. Number one, and I don't think it's much of an issue, his GPR was frying as we were doing things. The lug that has power when the relay closes was smoking at the lug actually broke off when Kenny was messing with it. We unhooked the 12 volt constant to that and taped it up and moved on. I looked at the diagnostic codes after clearing all the stored ones and these were the important ones we found:
Injector buzz test sounded pretty good. The #6 and #8 sounded slightly different from the others, but certainly better than my truck sounds with the stock injectors and mine fires up fine.
B 1352 Ignition Key in Circuit failure
B 1342 ECU is Faulted
P0605 Internal Control Module Read Only Memory (ROM) Error showed up when we did the KOEOff test

We looked at ICP Duty Cycle with the ICP that he bought new 6 months ago and with it hooked up would start at about 14% and then jump all the way up to 84% as we cranked
ICP PSI with it hooked up was only getting 2.5- 3.0 PSI (AHA!!! We may have something here) and voltage was at .23 volts static and .27volts when cranking, so we unhooked the ICP sensor and the PSI jumped up to 2250-2400 PSI when cranking but the truck wont fire.

We have my truck hooked up with 2 sets of jumper cables letting hios batteries charge because when my truck isn't hooked up his voltage was dropping below 10.2 volts from trying to start it so much. It's been hooked up with my high idle for over 30 mins now and we are going to switch my ICP sensor over to his truck to see if it'll help.

We are very concerned about the ECU issue and the ICM ROM error and we are going to unhook his chip too. Any other suggestions??

 

Jason, I don't know much about this, but can the ICP get that high just cranking on the truck? That seems like a false number to me.

 

That GPR was causing a drop in voltage when initially trying to start. Saw this happen once and after lifting the power cable at the GPR the truck started right up. Make sure there is at least 10.5 volts when cranking. If not try a jump start from your truck. If it starts check voltage to make sure alternator is good.

 

Had jumper cables comming from my truck from each battery going to each battery of Kenny's truck for a good 30 45 minutes and had plenty of volts when cranking.

 

Go through Dave's steps in Post #34 and see if you can narrow it down.

 

did we look for fuel yet, or the fuel shut off?? hopefully that simple.

The ROM error scares me though, at least in my line of work, thisis not a good sign, and the PCM ( yes I know it has alrady been done ) would be a place of concern.

 

We had between 55-60 PSI of fuel when cranking. Tried starting it with the intercooler pipes off and spraying WD40 directly into the intake when cranking and still no start.

Checked HPOP level and it was full.

The voltage on ICP being less than half a volt has got to be something. We switched my (Robins old one)ICP sensor over from my truck that drove there and AE wasn't reading any pressure (PSI) with it hooked up. It was at 0.0 volts and 0 psi. Duty cycle was 14-18% with mine also.

We cleaned the wiring leading to the ICP and checked for any fraying and couldn't see any. I even checked the fuel bowl to make sure there was fuel there. It starting draining immediately when I opened the petcock.

 

Did you say that with the ICP plugged in you were getting low readings? The 2000+ with it unplugged is just the default table. Sounds like the IPR is stuck. Remove and clean/replace it.

 

Check the wiring at the IPR connector. The IPR will default to wide open and dump the HPO back into the front cover if the PCM cannot send a signal to the IPR coil to control it. The IPR coil is an electro-magnet that controls the sliding valve in the IPR to properly position it for correct ICP (HPO supply) to the heads.