Okay guys. I don't know whether to scream, cry, just shake my head. I'm hoping and praying it is nothing major but knowing Murphy's law....

Last Friday she started smoking out of the right bank. Didn't run any different just smoke when you first start her up. While driving no noticable smoke. Come to a stop for a minute or two and she starts smoking again.

Then I started her up on Sunday morning I hear this distinct rap in the right bank.

Question? Sticky lifter? Bad valve? Worse?

The first time I gassed her up I went to mobil and put in high test (as directed by the previous owner ) 10:5 - 1 compression. She hard started and would diesel when I shut her down unless I did so in gear. Put some octane booster in her and she ran better.

Next time I filled up and she ran fine. No booster.

Filled up again at a different mobil and she started doing the same thing. Then the smoking started and the nasty rap I'm hearing now.

So, any educated guesses at what I'm looking at? My experience tells me it's a bad lifter but so many variables are involved.

It doesn't seem to run any different but I don't want to run it anymore until I have some more knowledge.

I was tempted to pull the right valve cover and dump Kerosene down the head and let her sit. Drain her and then change the oil and try firing her up again. But again, I don't want to create more problems.

I did that with my I6 300 in my 65 when I started getting some rapping and it cleared right up. I didn't really care about that engine because it was tired and used oil. This one is a different matter.

Anything you guys can give for advice would be great. Thanks, Todd.

 

Remove the valve cover and see if there are any problems. Bent pushrods, broken valve springs, etc.

The smoke could be something simple like a bad intake gasket, but that and the "rapping" doesn't sound good if they are related.

 

Thank you. I have a sneaking suspision I will be pulling this engine.

I'm going to pull the valve cover this weekend. Hope I'm wrong.

 

Also, if the two are related what guess would you venture? If I don't find any obvious symptoms in the valve train what do you think?

I don't care if your right or wrong so don't worry about giving me information thinking I will be upset if it isn't what you suspect because I need to do work on it ( obviously ) so any good knowledge will help me to determine what I will be looking at. Thanks bud, Todd.

 

Pull the plugs on that bank and make sure there's nothing pooling in the cylinders.

What color is the smoke? White blue or black?

Could be coolant (head gasket/cracked head) causing it to hydrolock and "rap" and blow WHITE smoke. Could be gas from a leaky carb getting down into one cylinder, causing hydrolock and the rap and BLACK smoke.

Or, a valve spring or keeper broke, dropped the valve, cracked the piston, and the oil is burning off, making BLUE smoke.

"She hard started" - hard to crank over, or cranked for a while and didn't fire right away?

 

When choked, she starts right up when cold. When she's hot she hard starts as in the starter seems to be straining. It also ( FYI ) has a high torque starter on it. The guy I bought it from seemed to think it ( hard start hot ) was due to the starter being so close to the manifold which it is.

Maybe I will pull the valve cover tonight after work, but it is so friggin hot and humid in my neck of the woods right now I don't relish the idea of doing much of anything but you have me motivated now. Have to see how lovely it is when I leave work.

So I take it out of the possible options you mentioned, it sucking a valve is the worst?

 

Same here with the heat on Long Island. The hard start when hot might also be that the timing is too far advanced.

 

Another thing you should check is the camshaft. With the low/no zinc in todays oil a failed camshaft is a real possibility. There is a recent post on the FE forum about this very problem (anyone seen a lifter do this before?).

 

Hey Krewat. Excellent news. I pulled the cover off, checked the rockers, valve keys,push rods and springs. Everything was tight. Push rods rotated straight. Contact on all rocker to valves. Scratched my head fearing it was bottom end. Then I thought check to bolts holding down the valve train to the head. Low and behold, Murphy actually cut me some slack. I could turn the first two bolts ( from the front ) by hand! Torqued all four down using my old 390 notes and fired her up. No more rap!

As a side note she is clean as a whistle ( no sludge ). Looked like a brand new FE under the valve cover which I was very happy to see. I'm going to pull the left bank valve cover off tonight and check everything as well. I figured I may as well since I ordered a new set of gaskets.

If you know the torque specs for the 1970 428 CJ I would appreciate it. If not I will research. I used my old 390 notes from when I built mine for the 65 I had that I replaced the I6 300 for. I figured it's better than just cranking em' down and flying from there.


Thank you for your input. It really helped to get me thinking a little more and motivated me to actually pull the valve cover. Sounds silly but 10 years ago I would have jumped right into it and probably would have pulled the whole top end off thinking the worst.

 

RANGER, I'm very clad that it worked out so well. While you were in there, were the rockers adjustable or not?

As for torque, the 428, with the standard rocker shaft stuff, should be the exact same thing as the 390.

For whatever reason, my trusty old Motor's Truck Repair Manual includes the 1969 428 (for the Ranchero?), which shows 40-45 ft/lbs for the rocker shaft support bolts, just like every other FE it lists.

 

Thanks

Thanks Krewat. It has hydraulics. No adjustment.

I'm going to pull the left bank valve cover off tonight and make sure it's squared away. I did 42 ft/lbs. on the right bank so hopefully it won't decide to loosen up again. One thing that really made me feel good was how clean it was and plenty of oil where it should be.

When I rebuilt the 390 for my 65 It was so gunked up I was afraid I had bought a POS and I was told by the mechanic that FE's are notorious for building up sludge. Bottom line, it turned out to be a great engine and it never let me down.

BTW, any idea why rocker shaft bolts would loosen like that? I'm sure if I had been stupid enough to drive it like that for any distance something bad would have happened.

 

Probably not tight enough from the rebuild, but I would keep an eye (ear) on it. As for sludge, yes, because of the old oil that was mostly paraffin I think, that's the sludge/wax buildup.

Definitely check the other side too. Great job!

 

Think I will get the Zinc additive as well. Is there a particular brand that is recommended?

 

No clues about zinc. I'd say if the lifters are already broken in, there's not much point, but then, I haven't worked on flat-tappet engines in a long time.