this is making me crazy!!!
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Junior User
Joined: Oct 2009
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this is making me crazy!!!
I did the Dana 60 swap in my 96 F250 back in Oct.09.
Scored a completly rebuilt DRW front kingpin axle from an blown motored 88 dump.
New brakes ,calipers,rotors,all wheel bearings , internals,gears etc, even painted and a sticker saying who rebuilt it.
I put my hubs from the Dana 50 on with brand new rotors and pads and hardware.(new slides) Perfect easy swap,no problems until now,8 months later.
When I hit the brakes hard the caliper shifts and hits the outer edge of the rotor.
These are ,I believe, called Cardone brakes?
2 piston that mount with 2 stainless slides no bolts.
Put in brand new slides and still have the same movement.
Now what?
Scored a completly rebuilt DRW front kingpin axle from an blown motored 88 dump.
New brakes ,calipers,rotors,all wheel bearings , internals,gears etc, even painted and a sticker saying who rebuilt it.
I put my hubs from the Dana 50 on with brand new rotors and pads and hardware.(new slides) Perfect easy swap,no problems until now,8 months later.
When I hit the brakes hard the caliper shifts and hits the outer edge of the rotor.
These are ,I believe, called Cardone brakes?
2 piston that mount with 2 stainless slides no bolts.
Put in brand new slides and still have the same movement.
Now what?
Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,670
Likes: 13
From: Sand Lake, MI
When I hit the brakes hard the caliper shifts and hits the outer edge of the rotor.
Do or have the retainers worked out of place as you drive it, to the outside to the point of hitting the back of the rim? or the other way, to the inside falling completely out?
Are you saying the calipers trailing end shifts out, rises outward away from the center point of the rotor allowing the leading end to dip down and hit the rotor?
Or the caliper itself attempts to rotate/twist out of line with the rotational plane of the rotor, rather then remaining parallel to it, leading or trailing part of the caliper dragging on the rotor?
Exactly what part of the caliper hits the rotor? Any chance of getting a picture?
Do or have the retainers worked out of place as you drive it, to the outside to the point of hitting the back of the rim? or the other way, to the inside falling completely out?
Are you saying the calipers trailing end shifts out, rises outward away from the center point of the rotor allowing the leading end to dip down and hit the rotor?
Or the caliper itself attempts to rotate/twist out of line with the rotational plane of the rotor, rather then remaining parallel to it, leading or trailing part of the caliper dragging on the rotor?
Exactly what part of the caliper hits the rotor? Any chance of getting a picture?
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Junior User
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pads still look new. caliper is trying to roll upwards hitting outer edge of rotor or sometimes rolls to outer edge hitting hub ,just behind the lockouts. the only thing i tried was brand new slides ,because i'm at a loss ,can't figure out what made this happen. maybe i'll try new pads and see if the extra 1/8 " thickness changes anything.
maybe a little grinding is in the future
thanks for all the replies!
maybe a little grinding is in the future
thanks for all the replies!
Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,670
Likes: 13
From: Sand Lake, MI
How well do the retainers hold the caliper in place, good a stiff or is it still rather loose even with new slides?
Is this both sides? if so effect both equally? or just one side with the issue?
If only one side, how do the pistons look, both coming out at the same time moving a equal distance when the pedal is pushed down? When you let off the pedal and the calipers relax, do both pistons on both retract equally as well?
If not peal the rubber boots open, use a large clamp and inner pad or flat bar to limit the travel of the pistons (to prevent blowing them out of the bores). Have someone push the brake pedal down to fully extend the pistons out of the bores. I realize you said they where new but look them over all the way around, see any rust or scoring/pitting on either of them?
If so and they do not act equally you'll likely find that is the problem, replace the caliper...........again.
Is this both sides? if so effect both equally? or just one side with the issue?
If only one side, how do the pistons look, both coming out at the same time moving a equal distance when the pedal is pushed down? When you let off the pedal and the calipers relax, do both pistons on both retract equally as well?
If not peal the rubber boots open, use a large clamp and inner pad or flat bar to limit the travel of the pistons (to prevent blowing them out of the bores). Have someone push the brake pedal down to fully extend the pistons out of the bores. I realize you said they where new but look them over all the way around, see any rust or scoring/pitting on either of them?
If so and they do not act equally you'll likely find that is the problem, replace the caliper...........again.
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 560
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From: NC
This isnt speaking directly to your brake problem but, I thought that the Dana 60 SRW front hubs and Dana 50 SRW front hubs were different and couldnt be swapped. That is what I have read anyway, as a matter of fact I think that somewhere on here at some point someone addressed this and showed a pic of how the two are different. Actually, I can probably get a pic of this tomorrow as I am also doing a SAS dana 60 swap on my F250 and have both the Dana 50 and 60 hubs at the shop. Anyway, if you drove it for 8 months with no problem than this may not be an issue.... Anyone else know if I am right?.........
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Junior User
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newcomer
I believe you are thinking of the spindles not the hubs.
The spindles have a little more meat at the axle end and stick through the knuckle a bit, where as the 50 spindle ends flush at the knuckle.
I personally don't think it matters but ..................
Danr1
I'm thinking of getting a rebuild kit for calipers and seeing if that helps.
Maybe one is cocking sideways on its way out , or like you said it isn't moving at same time due to pitting or rust.
One way or the other, I'll get to the bottom of this!
thanks everybody ,i'll keep you posted
Jim
I believe you are thinking of the spindles not the hubs.
The spindles have a little more meat at the axle end and stick through the knuckle a bit, where as the 50 spindle ends flush at the knuckle.
I personally don't think it matters but ..................
Danr1
I'm thinking of getting a rebuild kit for calipers and seeing if that helps.
Maybe one is cocking sideways on its way out , or like you said it isn't moving at same time due to pitting or rust.
One way or the other, I'll get to the bottom of this!
thanks everybody ,i'll keep you posted
Jim
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Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,670
Likes: 13
From: Sand Lake, MI
I'm thinking of getting a rebuild kit for calipers and seeing if that helps.
I'd check price first for decent rebuilds ready to install on the truck first, I bought two for my 94 and I don't think they cost all that much IIRC.
Might not be worth the time spent rebuilding them yourself, your labor and kit cost.
And yea everything I've read/heard in the past says they are both the same.
That and if they where different, off enough to matter, you would have noticed it some 8 months ago.
I'd check price first for decent rebuilds ready to install on the truck first, I bought two for my 94 and I don't think they cost all that much IIRC.
Might not be worth the time spent rebuilding them yourself, your labor and kit cost.
And yea everything I've read/heard in the past says they are both the same.
That and if they where different, off enough to matter, you would have noticed it some 8 months ago.
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Junior User
Joined: Oct 2009
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Ok ,heres the deal on different calipers, they say 86-88 are the same 89-94 are the same.
I had the parts store guy look it up and the computor says they are different and can not be switched.
I had him take out one of each and they are the same. Same casting numbers and everything! G-471 . But.....the boxes have different part numbers,go figure!
So I bought the "other" one and will give it a whirl over the weekend.
I'm thinking the pads have worn uneven because of a sticky cup in the caliper but ,like I said,"I'll get to the bottom of this".
Jim
I had the parts store guy look it up and the computor says they are different and can not be switched.
I had him take out one of each and they are the same. Same casting numbers and everything! G-471 . But.....the boxes have different part numbers,go figure!
So I bought the "other" one and will give it a whirl over the weekend.
I'm thinking the pads have worn uneven because of a sticky cup in the caliper but ,like I said,"I'll get to the bottom of this".
Jim
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I found the problem!!! Seems the 89 DRW front axles use a 12 1/2 " rotor as opposed to 13" on an 96 F250 HD. The 1/4" is enough to make the outer edge of caliper hit the inside of rotor . The hub part of the 13" disc is tapered and as brakes wear, they pull the caliper bottom up against the outer hub edge of the rotor. The 12 1/2 " are straight back on the hub with no taper and the calipers clear bye 3/4 " as the 13" only has about 1/8",so any deflection upon braking causes rubbing. I had some new DRW hubs and drilled out the bolt holes to 5/8" and pressed in studs ,so a free fix, just labor!!
Thanks for the help .
Jim
Thanks for the help .
Jim
Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,670
Likes: 13
From: Sand Lake, MI
I found the problem!!! Seems the 89 DRW front axles use a 12 1/2 " rotor as opposed to 13" on an 96 F250 HD. The 1/4" is enough to make the outer edge of caliper hit the inside of rotor . The hub part of the 13" disc is tapered and as brakes wear, they pull the caliper bottom up against the outer hub edge of the rotor. The 12 1/2 " are straight back on the hub with no taper and the calipers clear bye 3/4 " as the 13" only has about 1/8",so any deflection upon braking causes rubbing. I had some new DRW hubs and drilled out the bolt holes to 5/8" and pressed in studs ,so a free fix, just labor!!
Thanks for the help .
Jim
Thanks for the help .
Jim
Only thing I could really see what part numbers for bearings where the same. At least within a given year, took long enough to find that!
This is a 95 hd, I have all the wheels off for brake inspection/work.
Yea it has 13" rotors with 1/8" clearance between the outer diameter of the rotor to the calipers bracket, and the caliper itself.
The small taper, you talking about the one just under the outer pad showing in the picture?
With the 12.5" rotors, Where the pads riding right at the outermost part of the rotor? You can see in the picture the pads ride about a 1/4" away from it under normal fit conditions.
(Raining on my parade)
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Junior User
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I have an earlier front end with the Cardone style calipers.
Thay are held in place with a stainless and rubber slide that is totally different from yours. I had the same as you before solid axle swap.
sure was good to not hear grinding today.
thanks for the pics.
Jim
Thay are held in place with a stainless and rubber slide that is totally different from yours. I had the same as you before solid axle swap.
sure was good to not hear grinding today.
thanks for the pics.
Jim
Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 5,670
Likes: 13
From: Sand Lake, MI
I have an earlier front end with the Cardone style calipers.
Thay are held in place with a stainless and rubber slide that is totally different from yours. I had the same as you before solid axle swap.
sure was good to not hear grinding today.
thanks for the pics.
Jim
Thay are held in place with a stainless and rubber slide that is totally different from yours. I had the same as you before solid axle swap.
sure was good to not hear grinding today.
thanks for the pics.
Jim
Yea my 94 has that retainer system, would have rather used it here, measurements of its rotor and clearance to rotor, and post a pics or two but I don't have the front wheels off that one!
Posted that one to show it did only clear the rotor by a 1/8", that and to ask about the taper you mentioned.
Oh and my 87 is the same retainer system, the rubber slides would hang out or even fall right out, got to the point I shaved the rubber off and added in the stainless plate on the bottom side with a complete retainer to put more pressure on the caliper. Never lost a slide after that and no more Ford caliper rattle. I have yet to have to do that to the 94, its calipers don't rattle much yet either, little when its cold out.
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