Engine Shut-off....Can't find problem
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Senior User
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 191
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From: Huntsville
Engine Shut-off....Can't find problem
Yesterday I was driving my 05 and without any notice/hints, the engine shut down. The speedo swept over to 100 mph before going back to 0, and IIRC all of the dash lights were on. I let the truck set for a few minutes and tried to start it w/o any luck. This morning I spent some time of this site and did a lot lot of trouble shooting and haven't found anything so far. Here is a list of what I've down so far:
FIMC - checked the voltages at initial turn on, starting, and after.....all 48v.
IPC - pulled the connector, spun the motor, then replugged the connector (I reset the IPC code)
Fuses - all good
Fuel Filter - Looks good, turned switch on and fuel pumped into FF housing.
One thing I noticed when I spun the motor is that the oil pressure gauge didn't move at all. I read that the engine needs 50 psi before it will start so I'm beginning to think that my problem is related to the oil pressure. FYI - The Rotella synthetic has about 4k or 5k and the oil level is almost max.
I tried to cover all of the issues that seems to be the most frequent so if you have any other ideas/suggestions, I'm WIDE open!
Thanks in advance!
FIMC - checked the voltages at initial turn on, starting, and after.....all 48v.
IPC - pulled the connector, spun the motor, then replugged the connector (I reset the IPC code)
Fuses - all good
Fuel Filter - Looks good, turned switch on and fuel pumped into FF housing.
One thing I noticed when I spun the motor is that the oil pressure gauge didn't move at all. I read that the engine needs 50 psi before it will start so I'm beginning to think that my problem is related to the oil pressure. FYI - The Rotella synthetic has about 4k or 5k and the oil level is almost max.
I tried to cover all of the issues that seems to be the most frequent so if you have any other ideas/suggestions, I'm WIDE open!
Thanks in advance!
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,123
Likes: 35
From: N. Fort Worth, tx
the engine needs 500 psi to start but that is high side.
do this if the oil pressure gauge is not moving.....
remove oil filter and lid. inside the filter housing base is a little black spring loaded button. push the button down and have someone crank the engine over to see if you can fill the filterhousing full of oil while cranking. if it will not produce oil in the housing then you have a base engine oil problem.
also you were driving and it just shut off?
any codes stored in the pcm?
do all the dash lights come on when you cycle the key?
do this if the oil pressure gauge is not moving.....
remove oil filter and lid. inside the filter housing base is a little black spring loaded button. push the button down and have someone crank the engine over to see if you can fill the filterhousing full of oil while cranking. if it will not produce oil in the housing then you have a base engine oil problem.
also you were driving and it just shut off?
any codes stored in the pcm?
do all the dash lights come on when you cycle the key?
Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
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The oil pressure needs to be 500 psig minimum in the "high pressure" system before starting. If you have no oil pressure in the "low pressure system", then you will not have enough oil supply to the high pressure sytem to start.
Numerous things can cause no-starts, but with zero base oil pressure, it narrows the list quite a bit. You could have a bad LPOP, you could have a failed open oil pressure regulator, the oil filter drain valve could have failed "open", you could also have a leaking STC fitting on the HPO system. From what I have seen and heard, most other leaks in the HPO system do not cause a zero pressure reading in the LPO system - but they can and do cause a system no-start.
Numerous things can cause no-starts, but with zero base oil pressure, it narrows the list quite a bit. You could have a bad LPOP, you could have a failed open oil pressure regulator, the oil filter drain valve could have failed "open", you could also have a leaking STC fitting on the HPO system. From what I have seen and heard, most other leaks in the HPO system do not cause a zero pressure reading in the LPO system - but they can and do cause a system no-start.
Thread Starter
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Senior User
Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Huntsville
Thanks guys.....Here is a little more info:
YES - I was driving when it shut off
NO - No codes were in the PCM
YES - It appears that all of the lights come when I cycle the key....it appears that all of the "normal" lights
The truck is about 20 miles away so when I finish with my "honey-do's" (my wife never let's up on the list, regardless if the truck is running), I'll head back over the mountain and try to trouble shoot the oil pressure.
One question - "IF" it is a LPOP issue, what are the potential repair scenarios (and rough $$$ estimate)...assuming the best case is replacing a sensor to worse case replacing the oil pump???
YES - I was driving when it shut off
NO - No codes were in the PCM
YES - It appears that all of the lights come when I cycle the key....it appears that all of the "normal" lights
The truck is about 20 miles away so when I finish with my "honey-do's" (my wife never let's up on the list, regardless if the truck is running), I'll head back over the mountain and try to trouble shoot the oil pressure.
One question - "IF" it is a LPOP issue, what are the potential repair scenarios (and rough $$$ estimate)...assuming the best case is replacing a sensor to worse case replacing the oil pump???
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,123
Likes: 35
From: N. Fort Worth, tx
well that all depends on what caused the lpop to fail. it could be just a matter of new gears if you are really lucky. if not its as simple as a complete transplant. With out seeing the gears I cant give better advise.
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 357
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From: Anchorage, Alaska
Cranking on the engine for about 20 to 30 seconds should make the oil pressure gauge on the dash move into the normal range. if not, then you have a low pressure oil pump problem (or a problem with the low oil pressure system such as an internal leak)
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,123
Likes: 35
From: N. Fort Worth, tx
sorry but this is not really correct. it is possible to have a leak that is excessive to the point in the high pressure system to reduce base oil pressure to less then 5-7 psi to trigger the swich. hence the reason to varifiy base pressure and flow as I have already stated. wich is to remove the oil filter and varify it via visual inspection. Ive been down this road more times then I can count. its easy, and its quick.
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Lead Driver
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From: Scio, OR
Is this some sort of electrical problem?
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Senior User
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Anchorage, Alaska
sorry but this is not really correct. it is possible to have a leak that is excessive to the point in the high pressure system to reduce base oil pressure to less then 5-7 psi to trigger the swich. hence the reason to varifiy base pressure and flow as I have already stated. wich is to remove the oil filter and varify it via visual inspection. Ive been down this road more times then I can count. its easy, and its quick.
I am used to working on trucks that have an oil pressure sensor to give me pressure, not a switch to tell me theres at least 7 psi. It's hard to not mix the two up! Stupid Idiot gauges!
So now you have checked flow via filter housing:
- You don't have it. LPOP or low pressure oil system problem.
- You do have flow. So you have flow, but not enough pressure to equal or exceed 7 psi, because the gauge isn't triggered by the switch. You check pressure and you have 5 psi. You can't tell if the high pressure system works, cause you only have 5 psi low pressure. So is the leak in the high pressure side, or the low pressure side?
I have never seen a low oil pressure problem caused by a major high pressure leak, so I just wanna know how it happens. I know crazy stuff that you wouldn't think happens...it happens.
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,123
Likes: 35
From: N. Fort Worth, tx
basicly it goes like this If you can fill the filter housing it what would seem like a normal amout of time say 10-15 seconds at cranking rpm then you are going to be fine on the low side, or that has been my findings anyway.
the base oil pressure for the engine is really low I wanna say spec durring crank is only 10 psi. I would have to go back and dig the spec up to be sure.
this concern is most common in the 03/04 engine when the check ball falls out of the pump.
the base oil pressure for the engine is really low I wanna say spec durring crank is only 10 psi. I would have to go back and dig the spec up to be sure.
this concern is most common in the 03/04 engine when the check ball falls out of the pump.
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 15,369
Likes: 121
From: Stuttgart, Ar
To the OP: Do you have a way to read ICP voltage while cranking? That might answer a LOT of questions.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 27,916
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basicly it goes like this If you can fill the filter housing it what would seem like a normal amout of time say 10-15 seconds at cranking rpm then you are going to be fine on the low side, or that has been my findings anyway.
the base oil pressure for the engine is really low I wanna say spec durring crank is only 10 psi. I would have to go back and dig the spec up to be sure.
this concern is most common in the 03/04 engine when the check ball falls out of the pump.
the base oil pressure for the engine is really low I wanna say spec durring crank is only 10 psi. I would have to go back and dig the spec up to be sure.
this concern is most common in the 03/04 engine when the check ball falls out of the pump.
Since the OP doesn't have an early year model truck, I did not think to mention the check ball failure.
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,123
Likes: 35
From: N. Fort Worth, tx
correct on both counts. There are other things that can cause the same but those would be the most common.
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 15,369
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From: Stuttgart, Ar
Which might also be the reason no codes were found originally? I wonder if this also caused a failure of the dash oil pressure gauge, although unlikely. Maybe some kind of electrical surge????? Just throwing ideas out here.