While I understand and agree that mis-stampings, while relatively rare, are not uncommon. In this particular instance, I'm not buying it. For years, the year ID on Canadian truck vins tag was the last two numbers of the year. (ie; 49, 50, 51) In 1952, they began using letter codes beginning with A for 1939 with the origination of Mercury. 1952 was code P. That would be a pretty big error to make to forget to use the two numbers, 51, that would have already been set up in the embossing machine and "accidently" use the letter P instead. Also if you take in consideration the low unit number, that "error" would have occured months before the code designation change would have been announced.

I realize this is all speculation, but I believe my speculation has a little more basis in reality and fact.

 

Not at all Wayne. These types of things were not governed by speculation, but by laws and design/production procedures that governed the manufacturing world. And the explanation could all be very simple.

Based on their current orders, the guys in the embossing shop were directed to start using 52 Serial numbers and 52 Codes after a certain 51 number is reached - and they do it. Then they send the newer tags up to the factory to be installed in the trucks. There is a last minute order for a 51 truck from a dealer that gets thrown onto the production line and is ordered to be finished with remaining 51 parts and it recieves the next serial number coming down the line - at this point a 52 numbers. It may have been a last minute change - a custom order - added on as a 51 build change after the tags were already on it - once they started the 52 Serial number sequence they can't go back to 51 numbers. And back then they really didn't take things like that all so seriously..... [Production manager to line supervisor]: "Hey Mac, we just found a missing custom order from Ontario Ford. Mark and finish #8700 as a 51 EXTRA CAB out of spares for delivery to 'PapaJoes.' Here's the build order. I'll mark it in the production logs" Just that simple!

The actual reality and fact of the matter is this truck is a 51 Model - all of it's parts and features are 1951. It incorporates NONE of the 52 Model Year changes - NONE.

If he goes to buy parts, he will have to ask for the 51 parts - hood, upper valance, nose trim hood trim, V8 trim, etc. If he goes to Denny to buy a heater boot he'll undoubtedly have to ask for a 51 boot - not a 52. It is what it is, and that is simply a 51 Model, that somehow got assigned a 52 Serial Number.

Point is the year is irrelevant. In some US states if a 51 truck sat on a lot and was sold in 52 it was required by law to be registered as a 52. It was still a 51 Model Year Truck - built with 51 parts and required 51 parts. The model year is what's important. That's the Model Design it was manufactured to - and in this case that's 1951. It would be the same as if this were a "1950" with a 51 Serial number - It may have been built in 51 and have a tag/serial number from 51, but still a "Monkey Face" 1950 model.

If your mom or your doctor took a Sharpie and wrote "this is your foot," on your hand, it would still be a hand.

Or even worse, lets say a 55 truck gets injected into the line and is finished with a 56 Serial number. It goes to one of those states where it sells in 56 and gets registered as a 56. When you go to buy a generator for your supposedly 56 truck do you think that 56 generator will work or light bulbs ( Ford changed from 6 to 12 volt electrical systems in 56) or a windshield? No, reality is it's a 55 Model Year truck.

If in 2005 you build a 56 F-100 with parts off the shelf it's a 56 model not a 2005 model even if it has a ID plate with a 2005 VIN number on it. Right?

Reality is that these things are governed by Patented Engineering Designs and Registered Engineering Drawings that designate a "Year Model Design." They are not designated by the guy on the assembly line with a 5th grade education, who simply pulls the next metal tag out of a box and rivets it to a chassis.

You are right about one thing, these types of VIN discrepencies were not uncommon.

In this case for DMV purposes, I'd keep it the same (as a 52) - no sense in stirring up that "hornets nest." But for anything else, like parts, I'd go with 51. You can tell everyone it's a 52 and eventually you will get tired of being corrected and change your story anyway (lol).

 

So, you're saying that you're 100% certain it's a mis-stamping? Wow, talk about speculation becoming reality. Hmmm. I must say, you probably got A's in creative writing in school. ;-)

I would bet money your scenerio of a late build order and assembly switching back to 1951 parts, for one unit, after 1952 production began never happened. The order would have been filled with whatever was being built at the time. I would be far more inclined to believe it was a factory vin switchout for old, standing inventory on the dealers lot, than your imaginary platitude. It may have also had a front end clip replacement from a used 51 truck due to some unfortuante circumstance, which would easily explain everything.

You can call it anything you want, but legally (assuming the frame number matches), it's a 1952. Trim not withstanding.

 

Well , I couldn't stand by any more with out entering into this discussion .

The '51 fresh air tube elbow is the same as a '52 except for one minor difference .The end that attaches to the kick panel is flush on the end .. That attaches to the kick panel via three 1/4 -20 studs.The same 3 studs attach to a 4" round adapter ring thru the kick panel which accepts

the '51 round end heater boot .See pics .The ;51 heater core tubes are 5 1/8" o.c. The boot is 4" round on elbow end as is the adapter ring .Below Below pictures are of a '52 heater core (tubes are 3 1/8 " o.c. ) a '52 fresh air tube elbow and '52 heater boot . Note 1 " extension on tube which protrudes into the cab to accept the sq. end heater boot .



Your truck is a '51 as identified by the hood nose trim piece, upper valance panel . V8 insignia,and maybe the heater core tube distance and heater boot .Take a look . Post pics of what you see in these 2 areas .If you ever remove the heater the yr. should be on the back stamped in yellow numbers .Later , Denny

 

Julie , can we change that bout with Bill and you to a triple threat match with Wayne , Bill and you to be held at your retiremnet party on the 4th of July ? This is getting GOOD !!!!!!!! I am sure there is some simple & logical explanation to this discussion that has already been addressed . Later , Denny

 

No, but nice try on twisting of the words. And at least I'm offering suggestions rather than not and just trying to discredit others.

It IS either mis marked or mis built. There's no third alternative. Which of the two is more reasonable - someone assigning an erronious Serial Number, or someone just building a 51 truck in the middle of a 52 production for no reason? I mean come on Wayne - use your head here.

And your wrong on your analogy of the possibility of a production modification in the first few trucks between model years - it's done all the time. Also, you're wrong in saying it is "legally" a 52. The government and the law have nothing to do with designating a vehicle a model year, the manufacturer does. It, in actuality, (well rather, according to you) has a 52 Serial number on it and was registered - accurately or not - as a 52 because of that. That doesn't mean it's proper (or, objectively, improper for that matter) - which is a much more apropos word than "legal." It is "recognized" by "legal authority" to be a 52 because that is the way the data was presented to and (with no logical reason to assume other wise ie ignorance) accepted by the authorities. But that doesn't mean that it is "legally" a 52. It means it's legally titled as a 52 - doesn't mean it's correct. In the legal world that's called "fruit of the poisonous tree."

I really don't care what the tags say or why. This truck is a 1951 Model -and yes, I'm absolutely certain about that! Wanna argue? Fine. Other than the possibly mismanaged or erroneously assigned serial number stamp or tag, show me ONE 1952 unique part on that truck - just one.

You can't - there aren't any. They're ALL 1951.

We've offered the facts and opinions to the OP and he can decide what he thinks fills his needs. I think he kind of did that once already.

Tee hee! Don't worry about the tag team boxing Denny. I argue with Bill because he enjoys it - "a very sick man" lol! This "Peanut Gallery click" is larger than you think, but I'm not worried. I deal with people every day who want to get their way, via debate, by manipulating words and denying the facts, even when they have been presented undeniably - either analytically or emperically. When they have no real facts of their own they usually try to smoke screen by issuing personal inuendo, like writing styles, or injecting other non related sensative subjects. Next thing you know my comments will be called racist. It's a sign of the times I guess.

Despite the fact that Wayne knows I'm right about this being a 51 Model, and I know he's right about it being assigned 52 numbers, he's just stomping his feet and beating his chest because he doesn't like being contradicted. And I am pushing the buttons because I like to watch him act like a spoiled child, and want to see if I can get him to burst a vein in his fat little head!. I'm very controlling that way - "a very sick little girl." lol

Ah the tender, sensative, and juvenile male ego! Love you guys - really!



PS: OBTW - REALLY nice post on the heater parts Denny! I saved everyone of them for my tech library!

 

Children! Children! I only read the beginning of the debate quickly but it sounds like you guys are on the same page, just battling over semantics. And both of you are correct: She'll be titled a 52 (and our forum ID is saved!) but we will be sourcing 51 parts. My brother looked kinda disappointed when I told him there's a discrepancy but I like i the mix-up. Reminds me of misprinted hockey / baseball cards or the mis-stamped coins my old man and I collected. Lends itself to a story like Julie described. Thanks to all of you who chimed in today. Here are some pics of our magic air and one of some pieces of the interior. Looks like light grey panelboard with a maroon / tan seat. Sound right?



Edt: Whoa. How do I upload the full size pictures? Y'all can make out the pertinent details, right?

 

fight , fight !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! who wants tickets ringside to this match !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! gotta love the " discussions" amongst the brain trust 'round here !!!!!!!!!!! anyway welcome , really who gives a rats behind what year it is , you got a dain nice truck there for a combine face , and a running flatty , so you are as some have said , way ahead of the game !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! anywayz welcome to our lil' corner of netverse here and enjoy , and look, listen , ask away and search and you shall find what you seek here !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Click on the thumbnail photos to open the full size picture. Then, right click on the full size photo, select Properties and highlight the URL. Once it's highlighted, right click again and select Copy (or hit CTRL+C). When copied, then Paste the URL into the image link box.

 

I know. I'm a jerk! LOL!

One more thing you might want to look at just for giggles: On your flathead motor look at the heads and see if they have a 8BA or an 8RT cast on them. 8BA heads were used on the 239s up to 1951, the 8RTs were from the 239s 1952 and up on trucks. Just FYI!

The pictures upload in the state they are when you copy the URL. So, if you right click it while it is in it's small state on the menu page that's the size photo you will get. But if you double click on it and open it up all the way, that is th esize that will post.

Let me show you:

I saw this picture on your album index (it's like a contact print) and double clicked to open it completely. The you right click go to properties and copy the URL. I usually open a second IE page and have FTE open on both one withthe album and photo's the other withthe thread I want to post in. Then it's a quick copy carry and paste:




See? WALLA!

HMMMMM, what is that Denny? Does that look like it's - dare I say it - round on the duct end with the round retaining ring? (51 Magic Air duct boot and retainer)

Maroon and Gray (I'm almost certain) were correct colors on the factory two tone seat, and gray panels are correct.

Seriously, pay no attention to us when we brain storm. And tell your brother not to be discouraged. If you've collected mis prints and mis stamps then you know how these things happen. Shoot this truck may be some weird one of a kind thing.

The fact of the matter is you have a FANTASTIC truck in what appears to be excellent, original factory condition. 51 and 52 were so similar, that the very few items we pointed out are the 5 or maybe 6 very subtle differences in the two years - Both of them are great trucks!

You're lucky you don't own a "Monkey Face" (48-50) F1. They are still trying to figure out when 49 model line ended and 50 began!

You should be excited!

 

Thanks gang! I'm thrilled we know her age. I hope the 48's aren't a bad idea cause, even though we've just started this one, my brother's already talking about the next project. He said a 48 or maybe a Model T.

 

The 48 to 50 trucks are also very closely similar and may parts are interchangeable with the 51/2s. They are very handsome and desirable trucks (despite our joking back and forth about the grilles) You'll get used to all of this here - it's fun.

 

monkey face , combine , at least it's not a FRIDGE !!..................... lol !!!!!!!!!! we'll stip some more up yet !!!!! all of us with the 53-55's know we have the most beautiful trucks , the 56's are ok .................... hhhhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhheeeeeeeeeeeeeee ...................................... sit down and enjoy the show !

 

What year is a fridge? And what nicknames are there for a 66? I find those pretty slick.

 

Julie is partial to '51's since she was a year late and couldn't get a 50 to have a really good looking truck! <stirs the pot>