Harmonic balancer question
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Senior User
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From: Mad City
Harmonic balancer question
New to this...
So, I got all of my ignition upgraded, and then went to set the base timing and discovered that there was no harmonic balancer on my crankshaft (and therefore no timing marks).
I'm guessing I'm gonna need to put one in. I'm still trying figure out if I've got a 360 or 390, but since the dipstick is broken off, I'm gonna need to pull the oil pan off anyway. Will determine for once and for all at that point.
Assuming the crankshaft is original, is there a difference in balancers or can I pull one from either one of a 360 or 390?
Anyone know an easy source of timing chains? Can I just pick one up at NAPA?
So, I got all of my ignition upgraded, and then went to set the base timing and discovered that there was no harmonic balancer on my crankshaft (and therefore no timing marks).
I'm guessing I'm gonna need to put one in. I'm still trying figure out if I've got a 360 or 390, but since the dipstick is broken off, I'm gonna need to pull the oil pan off anyway. Will determine for once and for all at that point.
Assuming the crankshaft is original, is there a difference in balancers or can I pull one from either one of a 360 or 390?
Anyone know an easy source of timing chains? Can I just pick one up at NAPA?
Junior User
Joined: Sep 2009
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That is weird that you don't have a balancer. I am pretty sure that the balancers for the FE series are all the same. There is an easier way to check which engine. Pull a spark plug and run a wooden dowel down there. You can check the size of the stroke by rotating it around. Make the dowel at the bottom of the stroke and at the top of the stroke. A 390's stroke is 3.78 and the 360's is 3.50. That will tell you the rough engine size.
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From: Mad City
Thanks for the pointer about measuring the stroke. I tried to do something like that when attempting to locate TDC, but I was using a straw and was a bit too inexact. It came in "around" 4", but my neighbor was in a hurry so I'll have to repeat.
Gonna start shopping around for a balancer. I guess the reason is to protect the crankshaft, right?
Gonna start shopping around for a balancer. I guess the reason is to protect the crankshaft, right?
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,056
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From: Union, Washington
Unlikely you don't have a damper, since the pulleys that run the alternator and water pump etc. mount on to the damper.
Also the marks are probably there (in 50 years of playing with FE motors I've never seen one without marks), just covered over with dirt and grime. Try using a rag soaked in acetone to clean it off. I usually have the engine running to do this, but it is not required.
Also the marks are probably there (in 50 years of playing with FE motors I've never seen one without marks), just covered over with dirt and grime. Try using a rag soaked in acetone to clean it off. I usually have the engine running to do this, but it is not required.
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Joined: Jul 2003
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New to this...
So, I got all of my ignition upgraded, and then went to set the base timing and discovered that there was no harmonic balancer on my crankshaft (and therefore no timing marks).
I'm guessing I'm gonna need to put one in. I'm still trying figure out if I've got a 360 or 390, but since the dipstick is broken off, I'm gonna need to pull the oil pan off anyway. Will determine for once and for all at that point.
Assuming the crankshaft is original, is there a difference in balancers or can I pull one from either one of a 360 or 390?
Anyone know an easy source of timing chains? Can I just pick one up at NAPA?
So, I got all of my ignition upgraded, and then went to set the base timing and discovered that there was no harmonic balancer on my crankshaft (and therefore no timing marks).
I'm guessing I'm gonna need to put one in. I'm still trying figure out if I've got a 360 or 390, but since the dipstick is broken off, I'm gonna need to pull the oil pan off anyway. Will determine for once and for all at that point.
Assuming the crankshaft is original, is there a difference in balancers or can I pull one from either one of a 360 or 390?
Anyone know an easy source of timing chains? Can I just pick one up at NAPA?
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,584
Likes: 3
From: Chesapeake, Va.
The FE engines use many different dampeners and pully arrangements, they vary according to the OEM equipment, application and car or truck model. Some have a pully cast into the dampener and most do not. Some have a 3 bolt arrangement for mounting the pully(s) and some have 4. You really have to know what you are working with or buy the whole set up from another engine.
Post Fiend
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,056
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From: Union, Washington
No, it does what it's name says it does. "Harmonic balancer." It dampens harmonics (vibrations for those of you lacking English skills).
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From: Mad City
How'd I get this far w/o noticing? Mostly 'cuz I didn't know what a balancer was until I got to the step for "check base timing". I'll go back for a better look with a rag and some acetone/mineral spirits after the weekend trip. There's just
There have been some very strange things going on with this truck since I acquired it, though. Take for instance that there was what was left of a king pin bearing on the INSIDE of the steering knuckle/axle end house...
(Long story, for another day.)
Doesn't help that I'm always out there at dusk or running off between bolts to chase a kid, push someone on the swing, mow the lawn, pick up a hose... etc. (Not that I'm complaining. This is, after all, my SECOND spouse.)
There have been some very strange things going on with this truck since I acquired it, though. Take for instance that there was what was left of a king pin bearing on the INSIDE of the steering knuckle/axle end house...
(Long story, for another day.) Doesn't help that I'm always out there at dusk or running off between bolts to chase a kid, push someone on the swing, mow the lawn, pick up a hose... etc. (Not that I'm complaining. This is, after all, my SECOND spouse.)
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Originally Posted by jasonnerothin 
......I guess the reason is to protect the crankshaft, right?
"Every time the cylinders fire, torque is imparted to the crankshaft. The crankshaft deflects under this torque, which sets up vibrations when the torque is released. At certain engine speeds the torques imparted by the cylinders are in synch with the vibrations in the crankshaft, which results in a phenomenon called resonance. This resonance causes stress beyond what the crankshaft can withstand, resulting in crankshaft failure."
......I guess the reason is to protect the crankshaft, right?
"Every time the cylinders fire, torque is imparted to the crankshaft. The crankshaft deflects under this torque, which sets up vibrations when the torque is released. At certain engine speeds the torques imparted by the cylinders are in synch with the vibrations in the crankshaft, which results in a phenomenon called resonance. This resonance causes stress beyond what the crankshaft can withstand, resulting in crankshaft failure."
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2009
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From: Chesapeake, Va.
Originally Posted by jasonnerothin
......I guess the reason is to protect the crankshaft, right?
"Every time the cylinders fire, torque is imparted to the crankshaft. The crankshaft deflects under this torque, which sets up vibrations when the torque is released. At certain engine speeds the torques imparted by the cylinders are in synch with the vibrations in the crankshaft, which results in a phenomenon called resonance. This resonance causes stress beyond what the crankshaft can withstand, resulting in crankshaft failure."
......I guess the reason is to protect the crankshaft, right?
"Every time the cylinders fire, torque is imparted to the crankshaft. The crankshaft deflects under this torque, which sets up vibrations when the torque is released. At certain engine speeds the torques imparted by the cylinders are in synch with the vibrations in the crankshaft, which results in a phenomenon called resonance. This resonance causes stress beyond what the crankshaft can withstand, resulting in crankshaft failure."
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From: Mad City
Put in an order for an after-market balancer yesterday. Not one of the stupid-expensive racing ones, but not one of the OE ones either.
I'm trying to make it until next summer before doing an engine overhaul. (Most days, she'll only be going 4 miles or so.) Plan to put a vacuum gauge on her to see what kind of compression issues I've got, but want to get her to "reliable" so that I can get through clutch, brakes, absolutely necessary body stuff, and then think it through this winter before figuring out what's next most important.
Seems like (guessing a bit here) that the balancer is more or less just a hunk of weight on the other side of the crankshaft seal used as a counter balance. Hoping this keeps her reliable enough until time and money allow me to dive in further...
I'm trying to make it until next summer before doing an engine overhaul. (Most days, she'll only be going 4 miles or so.) Plan to put a vacuum gauge on her to see what kind of compression issues I've got, but want to get her to "reliable" so that I can get through clutch, brakes, absolutely necessary body stuff, and then think it through this winter before figuring out what's next most important.
Seems like (guessing a bit here) that the balancer is more or less just a hunk of weight on the other side of the crankshaft seal used as a counter balance. Hoping this keeps her reliable enough until time and money allow me to dive in further...
Postmaster
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From: Chesapeake, Va.
Originally Posted by jasonnerothin
......I guess the reason is to protect the crankshaft, right?
"Every time the cylinders fire, torque is imparted to the crankshaft. The crankshaft deflects under this torque, which sets up vibrations when the torque is released. At certain engine speeds the torques imparted by the cylinders are in synch with the vibrations in the crankshaft, which results in a phenomenon called resonance. This resonance causes stress beyond what the crankshaft can withstand, resulting in crankshaft failure."
......I guess the reason is to protect the crankshaft, right?
"Every time the cylinders fire, torque is imparted to the crankshaft. The crankshaft deflects under this torque, which sets up vibrations when the torque is released. At certain engine speeds the torques imparted by the cylinders are in synch with the vibrations in the crankshaft, which results in a phenomenon called resonance. This resonance causes stress beyond what the crankshaft can withstand, resulting in crankshaft failure."
The explaination above is an excellent and accurate description of the balancer or vibration dampener. and is a very important part of the assembly. It is not just a hunk of iron on the end of the crankshaft.
Elder User
Joined: Jul 2003
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[QUOTE=jasonnerothin;8941362]How'd I get this far w/o noticing? Mostly 'cuz I didn't know what a balancer was until I got to the step for "check base timing".
I didnt know my question sounded so harsh, My apology. I understand where you are coming from. We are here to help people with out attitude, I worded my question wrong.
Rider\Rich
I didnt know my question sounded so harsh, My apology. I understand where you are coming from. We are here to help people with out attitude, I worded my question wrong.
Rider\Rich
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Sir, we can help even with the Eurosport...LOL Ya just gatta read between the lines with some of us here.