Harmonic balancer question
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From: Mad City
Eurosport:
She got dragged off by some landlord about 10 years ago. A real shame: We used to call her the "Turbo Vette" when I was in college. She went from 0-120 in no time flat (in reverse, on slick ice mind you).
Good cabin heat and great for draggin beer around, but not much else. But anyway...
She got dragged off by some landlord about 10 years ago. A real shame: We used to call her the "Turbo Vette" when I was in college. She went from 0-120 in no time flat (in reverse, on slick ice mind you).
Good cabin heat and great for draggin beer around, but not much else. But anyway...
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From: Mad City
It's a '75 F250 - 4wd. Almost certainly a 360. Got a new balancer from JEGS, under their brand-name.
I got most of the accessories pulled off of the front of the engine today (alternator, fan, fan gear, power steering bracket, radiator hoses, etc. and it really is gone). Timing pointer is still in place right next to where it should be.
Next up is the water and fuel pumps and then timing cover. Just kinda waiting for a new gasket/front seal kit.
Anyone happen to know what's supposed to be between the fan gear and the water pump - looks like there is space there for a bushing, but the gears on so tight, I'm not sure if there ever was one.
I got most of the accessories pulled off of the front of the engine today (alternator, fan, fan gear, power steering bracket, radiator hoses, etc. and it really is gone). Timing pointer is still in place right next to where it should be.
Next up is the water and fuel pumps and then timing cover. Just kinda waiting for a new gasket/front seal kit.
Anyone happen to know what's supposed to be between the fan gear and the water pump - looks like there is space there for a bushing, but the gears on so tight, I'm not sure if there ever was one.
Ford Parts Specialist
Joined: Nov 2006
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From: Simi Valley, CA
The FE engines use many different dampeners and pully arrangements, they vary according to the OEM equipment, application and car or truck 
model. Some have a pully cast into the dampener and most do not.
Some have a 3 bolt arrangement for mounting the pully(s) and some have 4. You really have to know what you are working with or buy the whole set up from another engine.
model. Some have a pully cast into the dampener and most do not. Some have a 3 bolt arrangement for mounting the pully(s) and some have 4. You really have to know what you are working with or buy the whole set up from another engine.
C3AZ6312E = 1958/67 332/352/390/410/428 Passenger Cars / 1965/67 F100/350 352.
D2TZ6316A = 1968/71 390/428 Passenger Cars / 1968 427 Passenger Cars / 1968/76 F100/350 360/390.
Which one of these harmonic balancers is specific to any truck? None.
Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,592
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From: **** hole San Jose ca.
I have a D5TE-DA that I got off a 1975 f-250 with a 390 motor, it's 7" OD with a C8AE-6313-E with a 2 Belt pulley that is 6.3/4" OD. I have now got to a 7" fluid damper and had to have the stock pulley mounting holes redrilled because the mounting bolts spacing was different. So be careful what you order or you may have other problems.
my 2cents
orich
my 2cents
orich
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From: Mad City
JEGS seems to have gotten in right in this case: Both the "OE pullies and the balancer are 3-bolters and the bolts, at least, look like they'll match. It's under the JEGS brand name for "OE style performance balancers". (555-51663) "FE, 7", internal balance".
I'm working building up some pegs with sockets and 3/8" bolts so that I can apply enough torque with Grandpa's pry bar and my 1/2" socket wrench to get the drive shaft center bolt moving in the right direction.
Going back to what Moto Mel said many posts ago, it's funny that "getting close" is good enough. It's been a long time since we talked about this in physics class, but as I recall, physical objects all have a "wavelength" at which vibrations can be a problem. I wonder - short of installing a really expensive fluid balancer - if being off by a little bit is just as bad as being off by a whole bunch. Probably need an engineer or someone with a lot of experience to know for sure...
I'm sure the FoMoCo guys designed the original combinations "just right", but we're many years from that now...
I'm working building up some pegs with sockets and 3/8" bolts so that I can apply enough torque with Grandpa's pry bar and my 1/2" socket wrench to get the drive shaft center bolt moving in the right direction.
Going back to what Moto Mel said many posts ago, it's funny that "getting close" is good enough. It's been a long time since we talked about this in physics class, but as I recall, physical objects all have a "wavelength" at which vibrations can be a problem. I wonder - short of installing a really expensive fluid balancer - if being off by a little bit is just as bad as being off by a whole bunch. Probably need an engineer or someone with a lot of experience to know for sure...
I'm sure the FoMoCo guys designed the original combinations "just right", but we're many years from that now...
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2009
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From: Chesapeake, Va.
Close only counts in Horse Shoes, Hand Grenades and Thermal Nuclear Devices
What I meant was that the dampener from any FE engine except for the 428 CJ series units would work. All of the FEs were internally balanced except for the 428 CJs which were externally balanced requiring a special counter weighted balancer and counter weighted Flywheel/flex plate. It's amost impossible to screw up unless you get a balancer that has been specially balanced to a specific rotating assembly.
What I meant was that the dampener from any FE engine except for the 428 CJ series units would work. All of the FEs were internally balanced except for the 428 CJs which were externally balanced requiring a special counter weighted balancer and counter weighted Flywheel/flex plate. It's amost impossible to screw up unless you get a balancer that has been specially balanced to a specific rotating assembly.
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From: Mad City
Dead in my tracks...
Was making good progress ripping apart my engine, when I ran into the crankshaft nut. I was hoping that she'd've been loosened up "recently" when some previous owner pulled out the balancer, no such luck.
I guess the obvious question here is: We are talking "lefty loosey", right?
I rigged up the following contraption to help (click to view larger):
Things That Could Go Wrong:
1. Bolt #1 or bolt #2 breaks.
2. Pry bar #1 or pry bar #2 slips (or the blue one bends or breaks)
3. Nut loosens all at once.
In any of these cases, there are a lot of sharp edges around (radiator hose mounts, etc).
I tried some bolt cutter lube and have tried applying good pressure, but the more pressure I apply the more nervous I get.
Anyone have any special tricks or recommendations?
Possibilities I can think of:
1. Get another guy to hold a pry bar in place.
2. Get a better pry bar or two.
3. Remove the radiator and front grill for space.
4. Rent an impact drill of some sort.
5. Haynes recommends chain wrench, but no of the auto parts stores around has one.
6. Pull the engine.
Only possibility #1 seems cheap & easy...
I guess the obvious question here is: We are talking "lefty loosey", right?
I rigged up the following contraption to help (click to view larger):
Things That Could Go Wrong:
1. Bolt #1 or bolt #2 breaks.
2. Pry bar #1 or pry bar #2 slips (or the blue one bends or breaks)
3. Nut loosens all at once.
In any of these cases, there are a lot of sharp edges around (radiator hose mounts, etc).
I tried some bolt cutter lube and have tried applying good pressure, but the more pressure I apply the more nervous I get.
Anyone have any special tricks or recommendations?
Possibilities I can think of:
1. Get another guy to hold a pry bar in place.
2. Get a better pry bar or two.
3. Remove the radiator and front grill for space.
4. Rent an impact drill of some sort.
5. Haynes recommends chain wrench, but no of the auto parts stores around has one.
6. Pull the engine.
Only possibility #1 seems cheap & easy...
Lead Driver
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 7,592
Likes: 10
From: **** hole San Jose ca.
You have a early damper with built into the pulley had one like that on a 67 car motor. A little rised bump on it lines up with timing pointer.. I removed mind by putting it in gear and blocking the tires so it won't roll.. my 2cent
orich
orich
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,584
Likes: 3
From: Chesapeake, Va.
They are steel, at least all the ones I've seen were.
In all my years I have never seen a broken one and I've seen hundreds of them. In fact, I've never seen one that was deformed enough to not be useable.
In all my years I have never seen a broken one and I've seen hundreds of them. In fact, I've never seen one that was deformed enough to not be useable.
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From: Mad City
But assuming I don't deform or break it, I'm still left hunting for a new pulley set if I want to use the balancer I've just acquired, correct?
That pulley set will have two pulleys (one for the waterpump/fan) and one for the optional A/C? And the best source is a junk yard truck that had any old FE that wasn't a 428 (which are pretty rare anyway, I'd guess). 7 inch, 3 bolt...
That pulley set will have two pulleys (one for the waterpump/fan) and one for the optional A/C? And the best source is a junk yard truck that had any old FE that wasn't a 428 (which are pretty rare anyway, I'd guess). 7 inch, 3 bolt...
Postmaster
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 4,584
Likes: 3
From: Chesapeake, Va.
But assuming I don't deform or break it, I'm still left hunting for a new pulley set if I want to use the balancer I've just acquired, correct?
That pulley set will have two pulleys (one for the waterpump/fan) and one for the optional A/C? And the best source is a junk yard truck that had any old FE that wasn't a 428 (which are pretty rare anyway, I'd guess). 7 inch, 3 bolt...
That pulley set will have two pulleys (one for the waterpump/fan) and one for the optional A/C? And the best source is a junk yard truck that had any old FE that wasn't a 428 (which are pretty rare anyway, I'd guess). 7 inch, 3 bolt...