Cheezit:

My view, take it for what it is worth.

As a tech, you have the ability to enter things in the vehicle / owner file that only Ford dealers can see.

I would quietly document what you saw, etc. and say nothing.

Then do the fixes... and go from there.


One of the more interesting things is that any recent issue (2000 or later) computers PCM, ECM, BCM, all store considerably more data than they let on.

Much of the data cannot be read even by the techs, but are routinely read by the Ford / OEM software and then quietly uploaded and stored.

The data is then used.... as needed... by Ford.

If you ever wonder why sometimes, Ford will take a hard line... it often is because they know something.


Very few techs beside cheezit have the gumption to go and snoop around and do the kind of detective work you do....

 

evil just evil

 

I think if I were in your shoes I would explain to the guy you know he has been running a tuner, you are going to do the repairs on his truck, but you need to know the tunes he has been running in order to give a proper diagnosis. I can understand how you feel, but all the posts I see on here are always telling guys to "return the truck to stock tune before heading to the dealer" so given the fact he brought you a printout from a forum I'm guessing that was the advice he received. Let him know that giving you all the information is only going to help you fix his truck properly.

 

You know, I see the argument all the time that Ford did a big no-no, so therefore, what's a little harm in sticking it to Ford(or something along those lines, maybe not the exact words).

1: There are many different venues that a consumer can do if they think that they've been "cheated" by Ford(or whomever). I'm not saying that you have to bend over and take it up the tail-pipe(like some people did think that was what I was saying), but you have other avenues. You should be better then the next "person". It sucks sometimes, but it is better.

2: Lying(for whatever reason) and hoping to get something for free is committing fraud. Even if you feel that you've been cheated by Ford, how does that translate that you should commit a crime to get back at them? Irony is, by lying to them you also run the risk of not getting your truck repaired correctly the first time.

I'm just under the feeling that once you lie to get something that is going to cost me(or someone else) money, then that's it. After that first lie, I suspect everything that comes out of your mouth until it's shown that you're telling me the truth. It's far easier and better to just man up and deal with it.

 

Problem is, when you return your truck to stock, you also wipe out all evidence of a problem. You come to us with a "problem", but theres nothing there. That equates to a "no problem found". We can spend a couple of hours looking for an issue under warranty,(just to be cool), and look at "no problem found". Guess what, Ford doesn't pay for a no problem found. Being cool doesn't affect Ford, the dealership, just us. Someone comes in and is dishonest with me, it affects my family. I'm not going to go the extra mile for him because he definately doesn't care anything about me either. If he's honest, leaves everything there, I'll help as far as I can, but the final word is ultimately, be responsible for your actions.

 

I'm 118K out of warranty, but I'd like to know how the tech would want a customer with a tuned truck to come in for warranty work. leave the tuner, return to stock and tell you it was tuned, or return and say nothing. Remember some have had their truck flagged for tuners.

 

If you think about it, the answer is easy. If you get flagged for having the tuner, whose fault is it? Should the owner pay for any services, or the tech (not the dealer, not Ford, just the tech)? The answer is, be honest, no matter what anyone else does, be honest.

 

To all posters:

I hate to say this, but a certain amount of.. um, not speaking the whole truth is needed for survival.

While it is not across the board yet, in at least one North American jurisdiction, mechanics are, in effect, tasked to enforce Motor Vehicle Safety standards law.

That is to say, in certain jurisdictions, suppose you took your car into the shop, and a licensed mechanic inspects it, and in their professional judgment, it is a safety hazard:

e.g. suspension components so rusted / worn that it is on the verge of failure, non-working brakes, etc.

They cannot let the car out of the shop ---

Or, they can, but they have to pull the plates first.

If they do not lift the plates, and the car drove out, and got into an accident as a result of that failure --- not only are they legally liable, but they lose their license.


All of us have things on the vehicle (or have mods) that are not necessarily completely legal.

While the days when every mechanic is enforcing emissions law, and motor vehicle safety law, etc. are still far away... it is coming.


Then there are the random inspections for emissions... inspections for safety... and of course... fuel tax....


I have my own views as to what is driving this.. but that is not a discussion fit for FTE forum!

 

This seems to be the bet answer in my eyes. Sounds like he is only looking for the updated flash. If you find his tuner caused a problem that could be different.

I personally don't see the need for a tuner still. I have all the power I need right now. JMO. Now getting rid of some turbo lag........

 

Well, he has a hard start and misses when cold(I don't know if that's cold engine or cold ambient temp wise or both). He could be looking at more then just an updated flash. I know if I dropped off my truck for issues like that, I would want the mechanic to look at doing the flash and see if that worked, if not proceed looking at other possible issues that would cause that.

Tuning can have an affect on an injector missing. Tuning can actually hide, to a degree, misses by how the change the pulse width. This is the upside and downside to what tuners can do.

Unfortunately though, there will be alot of things that you won't be able to hide. Technology is such(right now) that they could store data that would tell tales of what we did to our trucks that they don't even have to ask us. Just imagine if they caught you in a lie and they were in charge, or held liable, of monitoring safety and emissions? Trying to sneak one by will only make matters worse if you get caught. Now you do have to get caught first, but if you do, I can promise you it will more then make up for all that you saved by sneaking some things by the first time.

 

I'm in agreement, give the guy one more chance, you will most likely gain a repeat customer even after he goes out of warranty. (assuming he keeps the truck) But I would make him feel about 1" high for lieing. Explain the the tuner vs. no tuner doctorine and tell him that if he comes in with a grenaded engine that the ESP guy is going to show up and say bye bye warranty. In other words, be on his side or at least seem that way. I know you guys have to ride the fence between taking care of customers and not letting Ford get screwed. Lieing isn't acceptable but I can understand his point of view too. Expensive azz truck that seems to be broke all the time.

 

I am well aware of that. Also well aware that there is zero chance any tuner that delivers significant increases in output can pass a smog test.

Even if it did, it is toast.

Tuners will eventually have to get their own separate PCMs, and then run the "off road" PCM so it doesn't leave telltales in the "on road" PCM.

 

That isn't true. My injectors are mild enough that with the correct tuning on it, I can pass(and have passed) an opacity reading. If I can do that with a mild increase in fuel flow, then it can be done with someone with stock injectors. Now if I get caught in one of those traps on the highway or pulled in for a random one, then I'm screwed.


How would you keep the "on road pcm" from storing some little tall tale sign that there was a switch to another pcm? That alone would get somebody thinking that something was going on.

 

Great thread, and I vote for making the guy feel less than one inch tall and sweat a little. Measure his response and go from there. I hate liars as much as I hate thieves.

Regards

 

Opacity test and regular smog tests are going the way of the dodo bird.

Take a look at the equipment that is being offered now to "mobile" units.

They can virtually detect any real mod in an on road vehicle... check not only electronics, but real time tail pipe analysis... exercise vehicle.. etc.



As to how to keep "on road" PCM from storing... well grin... lol.. to my knowledge.. no auto maker have come up with a way to prevent that yet.... grin grin grin.

Now you are into trade secrets!