Your UOA reports are too good and too consistent to be believable ...so I fear Blackstone has been faking them and pocketing your fees as pure profit! At least when I faked lab data in school ...I first calculated the correct answer ...and then I threw in a random error to account for measurement accuracy ...my how times have changed!

I've still got a lot of work to do on my UOA based wear model ...but if you compare your consistent 6 ppm Iron readings at 5K miles ...to the predicted 17 ppm Iron reading at 5K miles given by the "blue" curve on the graph in post #16 here... how meany km before oil change - Page 2 - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums ...you'll see that your wear rate is 11/17=0.65 or 65% less than the wear rate used to generate that "blue" curve ...which was the wear rate that corresponds to a uniform Bore increase of 0.00038" over the full length of the Stroke for each 100K miles traveled!

My understanding is that the "universal averages" on your report are the "averages" for all of the 7.3L engines tested ...but without knowing at least the "average OCI" for these engine's ...the "universal average" of 17 ppm for the Iron reading really doesn't give me much information on wear rate! Also the "unit averages" are supposed to be the "averages" for the 4 samples on your unit ...so how did Blackstone get a 9 ppm Iron reading as the "unit average" when you had three readings of 6 ppm and one reading of 7 ppm?

Another "complication" I've run into is that to use UOA ppm readings to "accurately" assess wear rate ...one needs to know what the VOA ppm readings are when you pour the new "Virgin" oil into the crankcase! For example here's some VOA reports on Rotella ...they all show a 4-6 ppm Silicon reading ...and I assume this reading is from polymeric methyl Silicone which is a common antifoam additive? However virgin Rotella having a consistent 2 ppm Iron reading is a mystery to me?



If we can get one person using each brand of oil to do a VOA on their brand and post the results ...then I'll compile them in a spreadsheet that can be used to compare with future UOAs from various brands. For example I've read about concerns of using Molybdenum as an anti-wear additive because it can settle out over time an gum up things like HEUI injectors ...and having a VOA-to-UOA comparison might help identify issues such as this?

Well I'm getting ready to break camp in a few days and head north ...so I'm not sure when I'll get around to starting that "all about UOA" thread I mentioned earlier...maybe I'll just start adding the "bits and pieces" that I've come up with so far to your thread?

When I reread my statement about your wear rate being 65% less ...I decided to see if my model really scales like that ...so I dialed in a new wear rate of... {(0.35)(0.00038")}=0.000133" Bore wear per 100K miles ...and as you can see below for that wear rate the new "blue" curve now predicts a 6 ppm Iron reading at 5K miles ...but what would your predicted wear rate be if your new Rotella had shown a 2 ppm Iron VOA reading at 0K miles? ...well that's a project I'll do after I move up the road!



After 5K miles a total Iron mass of 394.7 u-lbm has been worn away from your engine ...and 57.5% or 226.9 u-lbm of the total Iron mass is trapped in the oil filter ...and 42.5% or 167.7 u-lbm of the total Iron mass remains in the 28 lbm mass of crankcase oil ...and that gives an Iron ppm reading of... {(167.7 u-lbm)/(28 lbm)}=6.0 u-lbm/lbm!

As can be seen from the "red" curve ...if the oil filter had been operating in its "bypass mode" for the entire 5K miles you would've had a 14 ppm Iron reading ...and this point illustrates the complication that accurate wear estimates require accurate estimates of the oil filter's efficiency for capturing wear-metal particles which mostly have diameters less than 5 microns!

Hmm ...I forgot to take your 1 qt of make-up oil into account ...do you remember the miles into the OCI when it was added? If I had access to more details such as this ...and to Blackstone's historical data base ...I could produce much better wear estimates than Blackstone gives ...such as their comment that..."Your consistent oil change intervals in the 5,000 to 5,200-mile range have also played a role in the excellent test results your diesel is receiving." ...and their comment that the Navistar diesel is a good engine ...I could give a report that estimates the total u-lbm mass of each wear metal that was worn away from the engine during each OCI ...and also the u-lbm mass of each wear metal that remains in the oil filter ...and then the customers could send their oil filters to the special lab mentioned on the Blackstone site ...and have them analyzed to see if my wear estimates are correct ...or the customers could pull their engines and weigh them to see if I was right!

 

I have a VOA for both the Amsoil DEO 5w40 synthetic and the Schaeffer 5w40 synthetic, but they do not reflect the current offering from either company at this point because it was before both companies reformulated for the newer CJ-4 spec.

If I can remember and find the time, I'll try to dig them out for grins and giggles... but I'm not promising it will be in the next week or so.

 

The make up oil was added around 4,100 miles Gene. Right before a quick 1100 mile trip.

Neal gave me several VOA's a couple of years ago. I'll see if I can dig them back up.

Edit: Here's what I found for Rotella and Delvac. These are old numbers, so I don't know what changes have been made since then, but it's a start.

 

Chris, My last UOA was at about 265K, I only have mine tested about every 24-30K miles. At 199K miles with a 4700 mile OCI my moly showed 250, and my iron wear showed 9 this report was done by blackstone. At 227K miles with a 7200 mile OCI my moly showed 190, and my iron wear showed 7, this report was also by blackstone. At 265K on a 6120 mile OCI my moly showed 220, and my iron was 9, this report was done by scheafers. (Rich, sent me a couple of test kits to check the filtration of the AFE 6637. All reports state that I should run a longer OCI, but I really start getting uncomfortable at over 6K miles. I like my Delo, and I am sticking with it. I will send in another test at 300K in the next week or so, and we will see how it looks.

 

i hope to get the miles some of you guys have

 

Just for you Gene. I know you've got your new thread going, so here are some new data points for you from my engine using a different lab. I'd be interested in hearing your comments on this.

 

Wow Chris, that was one hell of a UOA report on your '02! Might be the best I have seen. Viscosity is holding very well for Rotella. Probably could hit 7,500 before the viscosity drops down to the 30 weight range (12.5 CST).

How has everyone been? I've been off planet for a while!

Rich

 

Try to triple that. Rotella after 10,000 holds13.64.
The Blackstone gave me the "Try 12,000 on the oil" advise.
Right now I put Mobil 1 synthetic and am really planning to take their advise and even exceed it.
How do you cut Adobe file? Would like to post my report here, but don't know how to erase my name on it.

 

Gene,

I sincerely hope the above portion of your post was said in jest!

Are you seriously calling the business practices of Blackstone Laboratories into question?

Pop

 

I am currently changing my Delo at about 18,000 as that is the point that Blackstone determines the viscosity drops into the high 30's.

Three bypass filters and maybe three or four quarts also go into that OCI.

Pop

 

Well when I made that above statement it was in jest ...but since making it I've done several months of research and analysis on UOA ...and I now think that statement isn't quite so "humorous" as I originally intended!

Read post #20 here... 7.3 oil question....... - Page 2 - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums ...to see why getting the exact same UOA Iron ppm reading from one OCI to the next would naturally raise some questions concerning lab accuracy!

The details supporting the above conclusion can be found in post #15 here... https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...7-3l-psds.html ...and before anyone extends their OCI beyond the Ford recommended 3K to 5K-mile maximum OCI depending on the number of miles spent towing I suggest reading that entire thread and looking at the graph following the above conclusion which shows that engines with more wear due to extended OCIs produce less RWHP!

Please read my analysis of the Blackstone UOA report in the above mentioned "post #15" where I state my reasons why Blackstone gave "bad advice" to that customer!

In case anyone thinks the above strategy is a good one for maximizing the life expectancy of their engine please read my rebuttals starting in post #9 here... https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/9...-question.html ...and continuing in posts #12, #22, #25, #26, & #27!

 

"We are all humans"
When I send the first oil sample to Blackstone I didn't disclosure the mileage on it, because I know that would affect their summary.
Now the Motorcraft oil after 5000 miles come almost the same what Rotella after 10,000. Blackstone opinion is that the Motorcraft was used for much longer than standard 5000 miles, so laboratory tests will not give you independent data you might wish for. Still the info you give them beside the test is making big change in final conclusion.

 

On the referenced thread I said...

...and a physical "oil sample" is the "only information" that's required to get accurate "individual absolute values" of UOA parameters!

Yes in order to relate these "UOA parameters" to "wear-rate" the lab does need to know "additional information" including the miles on the sample being tested, the amount of oil in the engine when the sample was taken, and how much if any make-up oil was added during the sample mileage.

My criticism of Blackstone in the referenced post #15 is that they knew the "additional information" and based on the "Iron ppm" reading they still gave "bad advice" to that customer! Of course if Blackstone doesn't know the "additional information" that's required to give sound technical advice then I don't think they should be giving any advice at all!

 

Thanks for posting Chris. good stuff. I ordered my kit from blackstone, and will be doing my first UOA on my Rotella.

 

Where did the figure of ten percent originate? Though I cannot verify for sure, I suspect that I am diverting far less, and within any margin of safety. That filter has a pretty-small oriface.

I have pretty-good iron wear numbers despite long OCIs. See:
http://springerpop.net/F350/images/Blackstone1.jpg
The 22ppm iron is after 19.5K.

I am not advocating anyone else follow my OCIs.

But it works for me...

Pop