The Competetion...
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 233
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From: Black Hills, South Dakota
While horsepower ratings (how much work the engine can do in a given amount of time), and torque ratings (the peak rotational force around an axis) are nice to look at on paper, and they do affect real performance; the real question will be long term durability.
390hp and 735lb-ft are enough power to tow or haul just about anything you should reasonably attempt with a 3/4 or 1 ton truck, probably with enough power to do it way faster than you should attempt as well.
However is the cooling system going to be up to the task of supporting 390hp pulling loads up long hills in 100F weather? This horsepower war is all fine and dandy but how many of these trucks really have the cooling capacity to really use all that power for long periods of time?
390hp and 735lb-ft are enough power to tow or haul just about anything you should reasonably attempt with a 3/4 or 1 ton truck, probably with enough power to do it way faster than you should attempt as well.
However is the cooling system going to be up to the task of supporting 390hp pulling loads up long hills in 100F weather? This horsepower war is all fine and dandy but how many of these trucks really have the cooling capacity to really use all that power for long periods of time?
Senior User
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 233
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From: Black Hills, South Dakota
We'll see. Not that it matters to me since I am driving a 1/2 ton and don't see a need for the larger truck for my use, but I think even the 1/2 ton tow ratings are a bit optimistic for real world use. At least for where I live in the Black Hills, or in other areas with high elevations, long grades, and sometimes high temperatures.
More Turbo
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 729
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That is only part of the cooling. There is exhaust temps that need lots of attention as well. Called the silent killer for a reason. Just cause the coolant temp is in check, does not mean the exhaust temp is.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,818
Likes: 1
From: Avilla, IN
I agree. And also the whole horsepower war is a joke. Give me a truck with just 300HP, 600 lb*ft, the right gear ratio, and no repairs for 100K miles, that's all that matters.
Also the fuel economy argument is a joke. Trucks are not supposed to be fuel efficient little planet savers. They are supposed to get the job done. If someone wants to have excellent fuel mileage, buy a car. So until they go back down to the fuel mileage of say a 460 I won't be complaining.
But I will complain about putting fuel/urea into the exhaust system to help with emissions. That's stupid. The earth has been cooling since 1998, these latest emissions standards are over line.
Also the fuel economy argument is a joke. Trucks are not supposed to be fuel efficient little planet savers. They are supposed to get the job done. If someone wants to have excellent fuel mileage, buy a car. So until they go back down to the fuel mileage of say a 460 I won't be complaining.
But I will complain about putting fuel/urea into the exhaust system to help with emissions. That's stupid. The earth has been cooling since 1998, these latest emissions standards are over line.
More Turbo
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 548
Likes: 7
I think it might be time to re-address the front end issue. Like you, I held the IFS against the GM trucks for a long time. But now that Deere is running IFS on MFWD tractors:
http://salesmanual.deere.com/sales/s...ls_cutaway.jpg
I think the evidence suggests that engineering has overcome IFS issues. And before anyone pretends that it is not enough for their off-road toy buggy, we are talking about a lot more torque in the Deere application than any pickup will ever apply to the wheel.
I do not know how reliable / durable the modern GM set-up is. But it seems that Deere & Co. has engineered a solid IFS design.
-mike
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Tuned
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
From: Sacramento Ca
I think it might be time to re-address the front end issue. Like you, I held the IFS against the GM trucks for a long time. But now that Deere is running IFS on MFWD tractors:
http://salesmanual.deere.com/sales/s...ls_cutaway.jpg
I think the evidence suggests that engineering has overcome IFS issues. And before anyone pretends that it is not enough for their off-road toy buggy, we are talking about a lot more torque in the Deere application than any pickup will ever apply to the wheel.
I do not know how reliable / durable the modern GM set-up is. But it seems that Deere & Co. has engineered a solid IFS design.
-mike
http://salesmanual.deere.com/sales/s...ls_cutaway.jpg
I think the evidence suggests that engineering has overcome IFS issues. And before anyone pretends that it is not enough for their off-road toy buggy, we are talking about a lot more torque in the Deere application than any pickup will ever apply to the wheel.
I do not know how reliable / durable the modern GM set-up is. But it seems that Deere & Co. has engineered a solid IFS design.
-mike
The real kink is not the theory behind the IFS. There are many, many very good, durable vehicles using torsion bar suspension. The real problem was the actual design that GM chose to go with. It is light, has good road maners, and cheap to build. The trade off comes in the form of durability. It is a fairly good 1/2 ton truck front end, but in my opinion it has no business (as designed) under a 3/4 or 1 ton truck. All of this is not to say you could not easily build one that would be great. Most of us would not want to pay for it, see the weight penalty, and possibly suffer the ride degridation that would also come.
IFS is great if built right, GM wanted cheap and just under engineered it.
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