Ok, so now I have the new Harmonic Balancer installed, but before I put the new one on I compared it to the old one and there is a difference in the timing. So, I'm going to take the time and reset the static timing.

I don't remember, and I can't seem to find, the the base setup for the timing mark at the IP. I get the whole gear set up process, no problem there, but I'm sure that I remember some one on this list, probably Dave S., posting a predictable amount of timing offset for a given amount of rotation at the pump.

Thanks in advance.
Ron

 

IIRC it's around 2-3* for every 1/32 of movement which is roughly the timing line thickness.

 

Ron, the timing marks on the IP and its gear housing actually indicate the 2000 rpm dynamic timing when the engine is run on a test stand in the factory.

 

According to the factory shop manual, two degrees of dynamic timing is approximately 0.75mm (.030 inch) of timing mark movement. The marks on the pump and housing are the "static" advance marks that will ideally result in 8.5 degrees of dynamic advance at 2000 rpm. If not, the pump should be rotated to obtain it. The engine must be off when thats done.

I don't see why you would need to "reset" the pump timing because of a new damper, whatever the marks on it may be. The factory mark on the damper is offset 20 degrees. I guess the marks on the aftermarket damper are not.

 

PSD97
It would be hard to see the need because I didn't go into a lot of history for this post. The new damper is part of a larger project, while putting things back together I noticed what looked to me like puller distortion in the outer ring of the old damper. When the new one came I found a +/- 10 deg. difference in the timing mark. I have no way of knowing if the PO used a claw type puller but the old one definately looked "Warped"'

So, as I'm going back together I notice that the pump mark is turned towards the passenger side about 0.75" to 0.80". My concern here is that the PO or his mechanic changed the timing thinking that they were working towards an 8 degree BTDC setting.

Maybe I'm the thick one here, but if I understand the previous posts the pump housing timing marks would line up for a 2000 RPM static timing and then be adjusted to fine tune. If that is true would it make sense that the timing would have to be set ANOTHER 8 degrees? That doesn't make sense to me.

Also, if the damper marks are offset by 20 degrees, how is it that the timing mark on the damper lines up when the marks on the gears also line up. I'm not seeing where the 20 deg. is applied to the alignment. Is that internal and the marks are set up to compensate?

Thanks for all the help, and the patience.

Ron

 

Ron i totally understand where you were coming from in your first post. These dampners are known for delaminating and slipping inside it's self throwing off the timing mark. Yes the dampner line set on 0 means just that Top Dead Center.

With that said as long as all your timing gears are set up in time the injection pump for initial start should have both score marks aligned. In most cases as I stated earlier you'll end up moving the pump towards the passenger side one line thickness, or 1/32".

If your saying your pump right now is over 3/4" to the passenger side it is WAY out. Like i said about 1/32" of movement is around 2-3* of time IIRC. I'd double check your timing gears and make sure there not off a tooth. More than likely the PO timed it with the slipped dampner. Put it back to where it should be.

 

That makes sense based on what I have seen inside this engine. The old dampner was within a few degrees of rotation at zero with the gear marks lined up. My guess is that the new one would be spot on.

The reason for replaceing the old one was more of the "Warped" look, like someone had removed it with a claw type puller instead of the center pull that a dampner puller applies. Then as I am re-assembling the front of the motor and get to the top I noticed how much the IP is advanced and I stopped to get better clarity of the timing information.

As far as the timing gears go I'm comfortable that they do line up from the crank to the cam. Next I am going to pull the IP cover, again, and recheck the IP drive gear and then re-set the IP.

Thanks.

Ron

 

Pardon my ignorance, but I thought that you can't set timing to any notches because they're not visible. They're under the front cover of the motor near the timing gears (or something like that). That's why you have to use a pulse sensor timing deal in the IP so it reads the notches in the timing gears.

That's how I understand it, but I could be way off.

 

We are primarily discussing static timing. It sounds like your talking about dynamic which is checked while running the engine. He's not up to that stage yet.

 

If it needed to be 3/4 of an inch off the mark, it just about has to be a tooth off and I doubt it would run right even then. It would be a pain to even get it over that far.

 

The PO did it probably because of the slipped harmonic balancer during a dynamic timing setting, yeah it would be hard to even get it that far. It sounds like Ron is going through it and found these issues as he went along. Should be good now with a new dampner and a little knowledge on timing the IDI.

 

I'm a hopin' that I can work through this and get the truck on the road soon.

I have some concerns about how far the IP has been moved, all I can do for now is try to reset it and get the truck running. I'll deal with related problems if they show up. This will be the first time that I have done this and I don't seem to have a written procedure anywhere in my stack of stuff.

Could someone either post or direct me to an online description of the proceedure for adjusting the IP? I am assuming that you can't just loosen the nuts and grab the pump with your hands and turn it. Is there a specific tool or method that I need to be sure to use so that I don't damage the pump?

I'm also concerned about all the things that I don't know about that the PO might have done and are yet to be discovered.

Thanks to everyone, old knives sharpen slowly, but I'll get there.

Ron