Testing Home-Made Double Flares
Elder User
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 693
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From: N E Ohio
Just something to think about. One of the main reasons for the double flare was to minimize cracking at the flare due to fatigue from vibration and external stresses. 37° flare is widely used in industrial hydraulic systems, but in mobile equipment it is falling out of favor. One potential problem with 37° is that a crack can start fairly easily at the very edge of the flare, and that can result in tube failure. Proper prep is just as critical, if not more critical, for 37°. (mobile equipment and higher end industrial are going to flat face o-ring fittings, not something done easily at home.)
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Senior User
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 289
Likes: 3
From: Van Nuys, CA
Just something to think about. One of the main reasons for the double flare was to minimize cracking at the flare due to fatigue from vibration and external stresses. 37° flare is widely used in industrial hydraulic systems, but in mobile equipment it is falling out of favor. One potential problem with 37° is that a crack can start fairly easily at the very edge of the flare, and that can result in tube failure. Proper prep is just as critical, if not more critical, for 37°. (mobile equipment and higher end industrial are going to flat face o-ring fittings, not something done easily at home.)
The propellant lines on satellites I've worked on are all AN (37 deg single flare). Granted they only endure intense vibration for about 90 seconds during launch. But single launch to orbit being a one shot deal, they are incredibly conservative (hesitant to embrace new, non-heritage technology).
What I've read so far promoting 37 deg single flare over 45 deg double flare pointed mostly to the former being easier to produce reliably, and that single flare joints do not rely on "crush" of the flare to achieve sealing, so can be re-used more readily.
Still learning every day...
Gustave
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 556
Likes: 1
From: Prescott, AZ
I look at certain jobs as a matter of economics; flaring tubes is one of them. If the tool is for hobby use and the job is rarely needed, then alternative plans can prove less costly. There are many specialty tools avaliable for free rental at Auto Zone, Advance, etc.
When I re-plumbed my first '56, I measured the various lengths of tubes I would need. I looked at the available market for pre-flared tube lengths and computed where I would need junction fittings. I was able to get junction fittings relatively cheap at the junk yard or auto parts stores. Then with a tubing bender, I was able to redo the brake lines without making one double flare.
When I re-plumbed my first '56, I measured the various lengths of tubes I would need. I looked at the available market for pre-flared tube lengths and computed where I would need junction fittings. I was able to get junction fittings relatively cheap at the junk yard or auto parts stores. Then with a tubing bender, I was able to redo the brake lines without making one double flare.
Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 15,882
Likes: 88
From: Durham NC
I look at certain jobs as a matter of economics; flaring tubes is one of them. If the tool is for hobby use and the job is rarely needed, then alternative plans can prove less costly. There are many specialty tools avaliable for free rental at Auto Zone, Advance, etc.
When I re-plumbed my first '56, I measured the various lengths of tubes I would need. I looked at the available market for pre-flared tube lengths and computed where I would need junction fittings. I was able to get junction fittings relatively cheap at the junk yard or auto parts stores. Then with a tubing bender, I was able to redo the brake lines without making one double flare.
When I re-plumbed my first '56, I measured the various lengths of tubes I would need. I looked at the available market for pre-flared tube lengths and computed where I would need junction fittings. I was able to get junction fittings relatively cheap at the junk yard or auto parts stores. Then with a tubing bender, I was able to redo the brake lines without making one double flare.
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Senior User
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 289
Likes: 3
From: Van Nuys, CA
I look at certain jobs as a matter of economics; flaring tubes is one of them. If the tool is for hobby use and the job is rarely needed, then alternative plans can prove less costly. There are many specialty tools avaliable for free rental at Auto Zone, Advance, etc.
When I re-plumbed my first '56, I measured the various lengths of tubes I would need. I looked at the available market for pre-flared tube lengths and computed where I would need junction fittings. I was able to get junction fittings relatively cheap at the junk yard or auto parts stores. Then with a tubing bender, I was able to redo the brake lines without making one double flare.
When I re-plumbed my first '56, I measured the various lengths of tubes I would need. I looked at the available market for pre-flared tube lengths and computed where I would need junction fittings. I was able to get junction fittings relatively cheap at the junk yard or auto parts stores. Then with a tubing bender, I was able to redo the brake lines without making one double flare.
Gustave
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 556
Likes: 1
From: Prescott, AZ
This is basically what I just finished doing. I replumbed the existing brake setup using pre-made tubes. I have a shop nearby called Orme Brothers that specializes in racecar fluid transfer hardware, so the tubes were easy to get. But it did not really turn out the way I would have liked, partially due to my ineptitude I'm sure. Partially due to trying to do it with all the bodywork in place and me under the truck with about 1 foot of clearance above me. And partially due to none of the tubes being 'exactly' the length desired. Thus my desire with the new brake system to attempt "Phase-II" and make the tubes exactly the right length (this time with the front and rear body parts off).
Gustave
Gustave
So I ask myself, do I have the skill and time/effort necessary to do an acceptable job? Sometime you have to gauge your limits or lower your standard for perfection.
Being retired, I find learning new skills exciting. I am learning to pick and choose which ones are worthy of my efforts. A challenge is no longer the motivator, getting the job done is.
I hope Phase II works for you. But just in case, don’t rule out Phase I.
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Senior User
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 289
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From: Van Nuys, CA
Besides cost, there is invariably the underlying principle of skill. Having the right tool is an aid but no substitute for skill. Technique is skill perfected and one must engage in constant vigilance to maintain or perfect that edge.
So I ask myself, do I have the skill and time/effort necessary to do an acceptable job? Sometime you have to gauge your limits or lower your standard for perfection.
Being retired, I find learning new skills exciting. I am learning to pick and choose which ones are worthy of my efforts. A challenge is no longer the motivator, getting the job done is.
I hope Phase II works for you. But just in case, don’t rule out Phase I.
So I ask myself, do I have the skill and time/effort necessary to do an acceptable job? Sometime you have to gauge your limits or lower your standard for perfection.
Being retired, I find learning new skills exciting. I am learning to pick and choose which ones are worthy of my efforts. A challenge is no longer the motivator, getting the job done is.
I hope Phase II works for you. But just in case, don’t rule out Phase I.
Where I ran into issues was bending the Z-sections that AX alluded to. It's not easy to produce such a section repeatedly such that it consumes the same length of tubing. That makes it difficult to just measure the length you need and bend the tube to that measurment including the Z-section. Sure you can push-pull the Z-sections a bit to customize the length, but only so much until it starts to kink the tubes and look rather shoddy.
My current belief is that the ability to make flares will allow me to get what I want. I may be horribly mistaken but won't know until I try. The cost of a few tools is a non-issue as part of that journey.
If God came to me and said: "Gustave you have to make a choice. For the rest of your life you can either work on your truck and not drive it, or drive your truck and not work on it." Well the choice would be easy, I get more enjoyment out of working on it. I realize that's not for everyone.
Gustave
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Hotshot
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 15,882
Likes: 88
From: Durham NC
Gustave, see my note about making aluminum wire patterns. cut the wire to the same length as the premade line then bend away without fear of kinking or making a mistake. The wire is easily bent and adjusted by hand until it's as pretty as you'd like. carefully remove it from the truck and duplicate in tubing. I use a Z bend in the tube running from side to side and a generous inchworm bend in the long line front to rear. If you have difficulty making a Z bend, make a S bend at each end before the fitting. S bends are easily adjusted for length with a gentle push or tug, and you can use up a fair amount of tubing if needed. You could even do like the manufacturers used to commonly do and put a two turn coil in the line then roll up or out as needed.
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Senior User
Joined: Sep 2009
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From: Van Nuys, CA
Gustave
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