Banks Tuner Problems
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Senior User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 320
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From: Fremont, NE
Banks Tuner Problems
I was a pretty avid Banks advocate until recently. I had one of the early Six-Gun tuners for this truck. About three different times now, the truck would simply shut off when driving. It would restart right away and would not throw a code. I had no idea what the problem was.
I read on a thread on here that it is the Banks tuner that does that. I have confirmed this with Banks....
This issue can SHUT THE TRUCK DOWN WHEN DRIVING. That is a true safety issue. Yet they did not do a recall and did not contact me about it. I had to read it on here and call them. Then they want me to tear the whole thing out and send it back so they can reprogram it. Really? That's all that there is to offer?
So Banks is on my S**T LIST now....
I like their exhaust, the intake and the CAC, but I am pissed about this tuner and their complete lack of support for a very serious issue.
So if you have an early six-gun for this truck, get it checked.
/rant
So...should I get the SCT or the Spartan?
I read on a thread on here that it is the Banks tuner that does that. I have confirmed this with Banks....
This issue can SHUT THE TRUCK DOWN WHEN DRIVING. That is a true safety issue. Yet they did not do a recall and did not contact me about it. I had to read it on here and call them. Then they want me to tear the whole thing out and send it back so they can reprogram it. Really? That's all that there is to offer?
So Banks is on my S**T LIST now....
I like their exhaust, the intake and the CAC, but I am pissed about this tuner and their complete lack of support for a very serious issue.
So if you have an early six-gun for this truck, get it checked.
/rant
So...should I get the SCT or the Spartan?
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2008
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From: Frederick, MD
I know what you mean, they truly should have called us and told us there was glitch. Not the other way around.
I have found that this is the only short coming that they have. Once you are on the phone they have been great.
Since I got mine updated it has been flawless. That was several thousand miles ago.
I have found that this is the only short coming that they have. Once you are on the phone they have been great.
Since I got mine updated it has been flawless. That was several thousand miles ago.
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Senior User
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: Fremont, NE
So I have been looking around at the SCT and Spartan tuners, and I found this on Spartan's website:
It is obviously referring to the Banks Six-gun when it mentions the "in line" tuner. Is this true that the Banks can be detected and the Spartan cannot?
Banks, of course, assured me theirs cannot be detected and all the others could when I bought it....
It seems like this would be a cut and dry issue? What do you guys think?
(I hopefully have some bonus money coming from work, what better place to spend it than on my truck?
)
Will your tuner void my dealer warranty?
Answer
Possibly, but not likely.
Lots of rumors surround the current situation as to if aftermarket tuning devices are detectable
in the new 6.4L Powerstroke Diesels. For most devices on the market, the answer to that
question is YES. Ford Motor Company has special algorithms in place within the factory
computers to detectthe download of a program from a non-Ford programming device; which
triggers the diagnostic troublecode "P167F", defined as "Non-OEM programming detected."
This code is only viewable with Ford dealer or Ford Engineering diagnostic equipment, and will
not be read or cleared by any other tuning device or diagnostic code reader on the market.
This code is also stored in multiple computer modules scattered about the vehicle, meaning
that "clearing" or resetting the engine controller alone will not force the code to go away.
Other in-line devices (tuning devices that plug into the engine harness connections rather
than being downloaded as a programmer) claim to be undetectable since there is no actual
download of a program through the computer system. However, this is not true, as the
factory computer(s) collect and store information from the engine in the form of
"freeze frames". These freeze-frame data collections WILL show evidence of the use of any
in-line tuning device even after the product is removed from the trucks. And unlike
previous model trucks upon which the computer can be "cleared" by the practice of
removing/unhooking the battery cables, all information on the 6.4L vehicles is stored in
"non-volatile" memory, meaning the information is stored permanently until overwritten.
A traditional "reset" cannot be performed, meaning the evidence of use of a in-line device
will be shown to any Ford dealer or Ford engineer for a very, very long time.
Our tuning devices use a proprietary process when saving the stock tune and downloading
our custom tuning to "emulate" the presence of a Ford factoryprogramming device. In
doing so, the presence of the "P167F" diagnostic code is prevented. Likewise, when a
vehicle is returned back to stock using our device, multiple computer modules are internally
reset to prevent and delete other tell-tale evidence of aftermarket tuning. This gives our
Spartan Phalanx programming device the highest level of undetectablilty available on the
market, helping to preserve your factory warranty and preventing warranty denial by Ford.
As Ford truck owners ourselves, our crew members share the concern about preserving
factory warranty and understand the stress involved when choosing an aftermarket device
in this respect. This is why we take every measure to protect our customers' confidentiality
and spend tremendous development effort to do so.
Answer
Possibly, but not likely.
Lots of rumors surround the current situation as to if aftermarket tuning devices are detectable
in the new 6.4L Powerstroke Diesels. For most devices on the market, the answer to that
question is YES. Ford Motor Company has special algorithms in place within the factory
computers to detectthe download of a program from a non-Ford programming device; which
triggers the diagnostic troublecode "P167F", defined as "Non-OEM programming detected."
This code is only viewable with Ford dealer or Ford Engineering diagnostic equipment, and will
not be read or cleared by any other tuning device or diagnostic code reader on the market.
This code is also stored in multiple computer modules scattered about the vehicle, meaning
that "clearing" or resetting the engine controller alone will not force the code to go away.
Other in-line devices (tuning devices that plug into the engine harness connections rather
than being downloaded as a programmer) claim to be undetectable since there is no actual
download of a program through the computer system. However, this is not true, as the
factory computer(s) collect and store information from the engine in the form of
"freeze frames". These freeze-frame data collections WILL show evidence of the use of any
in-line tuning device even after the product is removed from the trucks. And unlike
previous model trucks upon which the computer can be "cleared" by the practice of
removing/unhooking the battery cables, all information on the 6.4L vehicles is stored in
"non-volatile" memory, meaning the information is stored permanently until overwritten.
A traditional "reset" cannot be performed, meaning the evidence of use of a in-line device
will be shown to any Ford dealer or Ford engineer for a very, very long time.
Our tuning devices use a proprietary process when saving the stock tune and downloading
our custom tuning to "emulate" the presence of a Ford factoryprogramming device. In
doing so, the presence of the "P167F" diagnostic code is prevented. Likewise, when a
vehicle is returned back to stock using our device, multiple computer modules are internally
reset to prevent and delete other tell-tale evidence of aftermarket tuning. This gives our
Spartan Phalanx programming device the highest level of undetectablilty available on the
market, helping to preserve your factory warranty and preventing warranty denial by Ford.
As Ford truck owners ourselves, our crew members share the concern about preserving
factory warranty and understand the stress involved when choosing an aftermarket device
in this respect. This is why we take every measure to protect our customers' confidentiality
and spend tremendous development effort to do so.
Banks, of course, assured me theirs cannot be detected and all the others could when I bought it....
It seems like this would be a cut and dry issue? What do you guys think?
(I hopefully have some bonus money coming from work, what better place to spend it than on my truck?
)
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 37,375
Likes: 1,860
From: Frederick, MD
I think that if they dig hard enough no matter what you are using they will find it. I think alot has to do with the service advisor, the tech and how you approach the issue if you have one.
I would probably go with the spartan after my warranty is up.
I would probably go with the spartan after my warranty is up.
New User
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
New to this site but not to the others. I have had the spartan in my truck for a while. I took it back to the dealer a number of times for computer upgrades and other thing and I had my friend check to see if he could trace the tuner and he said there was no trace, they only said something about the black stock tail pipe.
Posting Guru
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,275
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From: Long Island, NY
Hmmm one of the largest tuning companies around, has a tuning device that they know can shut a truck off in the middle of operation and they don't say anything to their customers? I think you banks guys are being way way too easy going about this. Imagine a Ford programming did this, and they knew about it and didn't say anything about it. Makes me think of Toyota and the Prius, and we know how big of a deal that is. I say you pack that thing up, and get your money back. Just my opinion though.
Junior User
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 64
Likes: 1
Hmmm one of the largest tuning companies around, has a tuning device that they know can shut a truck off in the middle of operation and they don't say anything to their customers? I think you banks guys are being way way too easy going about this. Imagine a Ford programming did this, and they knew about it and didn't say anything about it. Makes me think of Toyota and the Prius, and we know how big of a deal that is. I say you pack that thing up, and get your money back. Just my opinion though.
I believe Banks has a line of tuners out now that can plug into the OBD port and upload a new tune. Not sure if they are as powerful as the Six-Gun or not.
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Senior User
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 320
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From: Fremont, NE
Banks is offering to send me a new one and then I return my old one, a much better way of handling this, so that is good of them.
Regardless of who's fault the issue is, Banks knew about it and I think should have been pro-active on the issue. It would have been one thing if the tuner just stopped working (stopped adding power) but this issue actually shuts the truck down while driving.
Regardless of who's fault the issue is, Banks knew about it and I think should have been pro-active on the issue. It would have been one thing if the tuner just stopped working (stopped adding power) but this issue actually shuts the truck down while driving.
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Posting Guru
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Long Island, NY
I thought I read a post about this a month or so ago. The post was from Banks and said they had found the issue, and it wasn't actually an issue with their tuner. It was an issue with the Ford program. Banks said they had submitted their findings to Ford to let them know of the issue. I suppose they could modify their tuner to avoid the event/circumstances that causes the shutdown - maybe this is why you have to unplug it and send it back.
I believe Banks has a line of tuners out now that can plug into the OBD port and upload a new tune. Not sure if they are as powerful as the Six-Gun or not.
I believe Banks has a line of tuners out now that can plug into the OBD port and upload a new tune. Not sure if they are as powerful as the Six-Gun or not.
BuhBye F450, I'm relaxin'
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,288
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From: Plainville, MA
Ford problem but only cuased when a Banks was connected.
Banks is offering to send me a new one and then I return my old one, a much better way of handling this, so that is good of them.
Regardless of who's fault the issue is, Banks knew about it and I think should have been pro-active on the issue. It would have been one thing if the tuner just stopped working (stopped adding power) but this issue actually shuts the truck down while driving.
Regardless of who's fault the issue is, Banks knew about it and I think should have been pro-active on the issue. It would have been one thing if the tuner just stopped working (stopped adding power) but this issue actually shuts the truck down while driving.
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From: Frederick, MD
It was an issue with the Ford program interfacing with the Banks. Banks re-worked their programming to prevent the issue.
I was in constant contact with them via e-mail early on in the process, I sent mine back so they could open it up, along with a few others.
I was in constant contact with them via e-mail early on in the process, I sent mine back so they could open it up, along with a few others.
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Senior User
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From: Fremont, NE
So I should have been reading message boards to see if my six-gun had an issue? No. They didn't have to do a recall, but they sure as hell should have contacted me. They have records and know who bought the early ones. There is no excuse for not contacting me if there was a safety issue like that.
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 37,375
Likes: 1,860
From: Frederick, MD
So I should have been reading message boards to see if my six-gun had an issue? No. They didn't have to do a recall, but they sure as hell should have contacted me. They have records and know who bought the early ones. There is no excuse for not contacting me if there was a safety issue like that.
I certainly agree with you on this point. Now the tech folks did call me when I got my replacement unit. But they should have been on the phone when an issue was identified.
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6.0L Power Stroke Diesel
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