Unless it has been bought already finished, every last one of us has dealt with or will have to deal with rust issues of one kind or another with these old trucks. All three body styles covered in this forum have there own particular issues that seem to affect every or nearly every truck to some degree. We've often discussed how to replace the metal after the damage has been done, but I've not seen much discussion of how to prevent it when it hasn't happened yet and how to preserve our repairs after they've been completed. For a lot of the group, this is a non-issue as the owner's would rather have ice picks shoved under their toe nails than drive them in the rain or snow. On a fair weather truck, a decent repair with fresh metal can last forever. For me and a few others, however, our trucks can expect to see rain, snow, and salt just as well as the sun. I'd like to see some good dialogue on what members have done to prevent rust in these common areas and maybe hear a few ideas for preventative steps when making these repairs.

Many of the problem areas on these trucks are in a location where two pieces of sheet metal are sandwiched and welded flat together for strength. A good example would be the area where the running board meets the fenders on just about all of them or where the upper and lower fenders meet on the Bonus Built trucks. I assume that they are put together with both surfaces bare so that they can be cleanly spot welded. Add a little moisture and road salt to this area and it wicks between the parts. Air can't get to it to dry it out and the termites soon start munching on the bare sheet metal. It's no surprise when perforation soon follows. Ideas I've considered for these places are using weld-through primer on both pieces when patching and then using a good seam sealer all the way around the reinforcement followed by a nice, thick coat of undercoat after paint and final assembly.

A slight variation of this problem are dirt traps. I'm referring to areas like the cab corners on all trucks. Door bottoms are another good one. Also refer to the front edge of the hood on the '53-'56 trucks and the area where the reinforcement hoop meets the bottom of the hood sides on the Bonus Built trucks. Dirt accumulates in these places where the factory never got much paint to begin with. A little moisture works its way in and gets trapped in the dirt where it can't dry out. Hello, iron oxide. These places are tough because they are always going to trap dirt. About the only thing I can come up with is weld-through primer when assembling the patches and then drizzling the areas full of paint or even oil. Drain holes and frequent cleaning would help, too.

What say the rest of you?

 

Here's another good one - What can you do to prevent this kind of damage in areas like these that haven't rusted out yet? For instance, I bought a seriously nice, rust-free set of front fenders for my F-2. The area where the upper and lower fenders meet is pristine and I want to keep it that way. Knowing that the truck will see rain and occasionally salt, I've considered going as far as drilling out the spot welds on the reinforcements to blast and treat the adjoining surfaces behind them. I mean, you just know that there's surface rust hiding in there already at a minimum. The jury is out on whether or not it's worth it. By the time you did all this, welded it back together, and then did the body work on the outer skin where the welds are, you've got almost as much effort into it as you would just patching a rust hole. A friend suggested soaking the area in oil, but that would sure make for a mess when it's time to paint.

Store bought patches themselves raise the same point. They often have any reinforcements already welded in place. How do you treat this after the fact? Thoughts on places like this?

 

You've already touched on the nuimber one way to prevent rust, and that's to make sure the prone areas stay clean and dry. That means making sure drain holes are kept clean and open. Look at cab corners and door bottoms. What's the most common item found in those areas when you have a rust-out problem? Dirt and ick that holds moisture against the metal. Eliminate the ick, and you eliminate rust. Take away the breeding ground, and you have no issues.

You mentioned sealing the double paneled areas with seam sealer and undercoat. All good ideas, but as you noted, if there's already even the slightest bit of surface rust started, all you'll be doing then is sealing up the rust. Sure, it may take 50 years for it to be a problem, but it is there nonetheless. One thing that will work better than all of the above is panel adhiesive. Special body shop "glue" that is used for bonding panels together instead of welding. If applied correctly, it will get 100% coverage between the panels, eliminate the need for welding and body repairs, and you'll never have a rust issue. It'll also be stronger than two panels spot welded (not that you're looking for ultimate strength for this application, but it is a by-product) and eliminate a potential squeak area, too. For your new fenders, this would be something to consider.

 

Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about! A good spot weld cutter and some care will make short work of getting it apart, but the welding it back together is where the opportunity for causing additional bodywork on a nice, virgin panel comes from. We need a repository in this forum for ideas and information like this. Lord knows that there is no shortage of rust repair needed on this old stuff. Keep 'em coming!

 

I spoke to my effie buddy yhe other day, and told him I would pick the parts up next week,and be bringing my 53.
He almost started yelling at me....because he thinks I shouldn't drive an old truck in the salt.
In Ohio....I am hesitant about it too....but 1 truck(53) I bought just for this purpose....to use it,and haul with it...year round.
It is a sin to do a resto and drive it in salt......that is crap......Every Jan.1 my buddy and I would drive our 6 pac roadrunners and then wash them off afterwords....NO RUST.

I think it just shows you don't treasure your vehicle if you drive it in winter in the rust belt.....but I do and wait till you see the rubberneckers....LOL

 

Good points! Something I agonized over (a lot) when considering my resto. About all you can hope for is that repairs will last 20 yrs, with some attention to cleaning out the cracks and crevices. I'll be in the ground by then (I hope!), gotta pass some of these problems along to the next generation!

Panel adhesive doesn't seem like the right tool, 3M makes all kinds of sealers for this purpose. A lot of them require special applicators, so you might have to go to a body shop for them.

BOR you are exactly correct that dirt getting into the small gaps between panels/reinforcements is the big problem; even in the desert these areas will rust because the sand/dirt gets in there and will hold moisture for a month. Sealing them will help, but you may just create a different place for the dirt to collect.

I have vivid memories from the '60's of cars in the Chicago area that had been Ziebarted inside the doors, and a couple years later the entire door skin was rusted thru in a straight line marking the edge of the "rustproofing".

If someone wants to figure out what modern truck wheel well liners (plastic) can be adapted to our trucks, that is surely the ultimate solution for fender problems.

 

Joe,

When Peter H. was active, he and I talked about ways to use aerospace technology on these old trucks, as we both have many years experience in that industry. Having your vehicle rust through is definitely a bad thing. Having your aircraft corrode is eventually going to give quite a few people a VERY bad day. So there is a compelling reason (besides federal mandates) for the aerospace industry to come up with corrosion prevention materials and methods.

(Aluminum and Titanium don't rust - they oxidize. It's the same process, but the term "rust" is only applicable to iron and its alloys like steel.)

I know there are quite a few products and techniques that are used on aircraft to slow or prevent oxidation. Many commercial products and processes have migrated from military and civilian aerospace to other applications. They generally fall into three categories - processes, coatings, and fillers.


Some processes are:

1) General Motors specification GM7111M (Phoshate/Zinc/Organic coating process).

This is not a DIY process and appears to be for Aluminum only - but there are references to www.cfi1.com doing it on steel. There are a number of companies around the country that do this work. I have no idea how expensive it is - you'd have to do a quick Internet search and then contact the company you want to work with.

2) Opel has a process, GME00255-B, similar to the GM process.


The coatings include:

1) Zinc-Chromate paint available from vendors such as:

www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/search.do?freeText=Awlgrip%20Zinc%20Chromate%20Was h%20Primer&resultPref=all&page=GRID&history=lbtpog xs%7Cother%7CfreeText%7Echromate+primer+zinc%5Eeng ine%7Eadwords%25216456%5Ekeyword%7Eczinc_chromate_ primer%5Epage%7EGRID%5Euser_att_name0%7EUserType%5 Euser_att_value0%7ENewUser

It ain't cheap but it WILL extend the life of your aluminum or steel parts significantly. Here is the application guide:

www.awlgrip.com/support/applicationguidance/Pages/ApplicationGuidance.aspx

You'd have to talk with the company to see if this primer will accept an automotive finish and produce good results. Here are some other products to check out.

www.skygeek.com/942.html#top

www.sprayproducts.com/files/orr-lac-color-chart.pdf
Look for 942 Zinc Chromate Green on the left side of the document.

2) Zinc rich paint available from places like:

www.hubindustrialsupply.com/products/PAINTS%20@@26%20MARKERS/TRU-GALV%20GALVANIZE%20COMPOUND/ZINC%20RICH%20COLD%20GALVANIZING%20COMPOUND.aspx

Zinc Coating, Rust Proof Coating, Corrosion Resistant – All metals – Marine Vessels – Chemical Processing Plants – Manufacturing Facilities - Superior Industries

the Zinc Cold Galvanizing paint at:

www.moellermarine.com/aftermarket/marine_paints/primers/

The second site mentions that it can be used on auto body parts. I haven't seen any details about how good the final finish is after using this product as a primer. I looked at Tru-Galv's web site but they are apparently just now setting it up.

This is not an exhaustive list - there are other coatings as well.


I'm out of time (wife wants me to actually interact with family on Christmas Eve - go figure!) I'll try to look up some of the fillers later. The fillers are designed to deny access to areas that would otherwise collect dirt, water, and other rust-promoting material.

 

I've always wondered why zinc chromate paint is not used more in automotive applications to cover hidden areas, as is so common in aircraft. Is it an aluminum vs. steel consideration?

 

I'm curious, Ross, about your take on the use of panel adhesive I mentioned? Is there something in particular about the process you don't believe would work, or should be used for that fashion?

 

Cost vs. benefit. It used to be if a car actually made it on the road 10 years, it was pretty used up and ready for the junk pile. Engines rarely lasted more than 100,000 miles, and suspensions and interiors were about done by then, too. The manufacturers weren't too concerned about making a car that would last for all eternity, but in the 40's and 50's, our trucks were state-of-the-art, and I think they held up pretty well, considering what they were intended to do. As oils, fuels, roads, metallurgy, machining techniques, and general conditions improved to where the mechanicals were outlasting the bodies, that's when the OEM's started thinking about rustproofing and making a better product and creating happier customers.

Today, they do a much better job of coating complete assemblies by dipping and electrostatic processes, and bodies do last much better than they ever have. But an automobile is still a disposable product, and isn't nearly the investment that a multi-million dollar aircraft is.

 

You guys are looking at this the wrong way. You want iron oxide, it makes your vehicle worth more. Don't believe me? Next time you see that old rusty hulk sitting on the side of the road with a "For Sale" sign on stop and ask what the seller wants for it. The more iron oxide on the vehicle the more the seller will think it's worth. Most time the price is about 80% of a completely restored vehicle. They'll tell you "They don't make them any more" and the'll tell you what a deal it was and it won't take too much to get it back on the road. Also, when you meet the old geezer, using a walker and spitting up brown stuff who has had the old car sitting in his for the last 20 years and who says he's going to store it "some day". Obviously he thinks it's only going to improve by sitting out in the elements a few more year.

Buy maintaining our vehicles we're only diminishing our investments.

 

If you go to Eastwood.com, they have an assortment of products for dealing with rust. They have one called "Anti-Rust" that you spray on and it is supposed to flow into joints and cracks and seal and prevent rust. Haven't tried it yet but looks interesting

 

Isn't there a very high dollar kit you can buy, that basically passes a certain electric current or charge (or something) through the body that prevents the oxidation of metals? I seem to remember seeing one on a tv program with top dollar supercars. Its supposed to stop rust forming almost completely?

 

Bob, you're killing me here!

 

Panel adhesives are meant to be applied in thin layers on each piece, (usually) wait til the volatiles flash off, then touch them together where they are supposed to join (like contact cement). It sounded like you were suggesting its use as a filler to seal gaps between two pieces, like the fender reinforcement and the fender?


This is what I meant:



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Data Sheet

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3M Part No.(s) 3M Part Descriptor (s)

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