Hi guys i have run into something a my dealership i wanted to share with you. I do not own a 6.4 but i work for international and have seen a string of problem you should be aware of.

First is fuel in oil. There has been a recall on the injectors maybe not on the fords but on the maxxforce 7. The orings where a bad design causeing it to put fuel i the oil. This is a internal oring too. Just moniter your oil level.

Now for the really bad one. I have seen 3 buses 1 truck do this. They are coming in for running off and not shutting off then when i try and start it it will not start. I then look into it for no fuel rail psi. I diag it then i leads me to the injectos. I remove the injectors and find the nozzles to be blown out(holes very large) The glowplug is melted off and the pistons are melted along with half gallon of fuel in clyinders and exhaust manifold. The cylinders are always messed up in this and requires a new engine. The cause of this is determine to be excssive regens and this is absolutly rediculous. I want to let you guys know this and to be aware. If you dont already have a pyrogauge GET ONE.

 

Thanks for the information, maybe someone with a similar experience will report in.

 

Thanks for the info. Much appreciated. I have an OBD II thing (Edge Insight) that gives me 4 different exhaust gas temps, is this what we should monitor? For some reason I can't get fuel rail pressure readings, I might need to update it or something.

About the regens, don't the Maxxforce and the PSD regen differently? For example, the PSD's don't regen at idle and in park anymore. Does the Maxxforce still regen at idle/park? Could this be the issue?

Or is it really high EGT's melting the engine?

Really appreciate your info here. I'm one of the guys that just guesses and throws ideas out and inevitably some of them are stupid, such is life.

 

my experance has been along the lines of excesive regen. almost all the excessive regen issues I have seen come from a bad maf sensor. the maf are failing for one of 2 reasons. either a aftermarket air filter or dirty factory filters.
The overfull crankcase is also alowing oil to be pused into the cac and causing number 2 pistopn to melt.
We have also had a few with a pie shape wedge cut out of the exhaust valve wich is caused by injector spray patterns and the uneven flame front from that spray pattern

 

On your Edge, what are the labels for the 4 EGT sensors? 3 are in the exhaust stream, and one is pre-turbo (the one you want). Usually they are labeled with numbers 1,2,3, and one that is different... (EGRTA, PEGT, or EGRTin) which is the pre-turbo sensor.

 

Have either of you guys seen a bad DOC as the cause for excessive regens yet? There was a thread on a bus forum (about 3 Maxxforce DTs, and another guy chimes in with 23 Maxxforce 7's) that went from start to finish diagnosing a problem. In the end, it turned out that the high oil levels, fuel dilution, and excessive regens on multiple buses all stemmed from bad DOCs. Since they were not working properly, they would not ignite the fuel coming to them during regen. Without the properly functioning regen, the computer just kept it in regen mode for longer periods of time resulting in the conditions listed above.

Just wondering if that has happened at all on Ford's setup.

(Here is the thread. One of the last posts is the resolution.)
Maxxforce DT Emissions Fault light/Fuel in Oil - School Bus Fleet Magazine Forums

 

that is what I have heard, excessive regen's not monitoring it and then the result of fuel in the oil causing a runaway.

Once that happens you are done. No monitoring of EGT's will save you at this point.

 

Well first guys you cannot compare a maxx 7 to a maxx dt. A vt365 and a dt466 used to have the same fuel system the maxx dt and 5 usse old HPO and the 7 uses commonrail. The fuel in oil will not cause a runnaway condition either. Just destroy you bearing and cly. The doc being plugged will not cause this though it can but ill explain why not. Your DPF has an EDPS(exhaust differential pressure sensor) this is what tells you when a regen is needed. The sensors moderate the regen and tell if its working correctly and so on If your filter and doc where plugged you would get a code for excessive exhaust back pressure. That fourm about the buses seems odd. Being i work for international and am the maxx 5,7,dt,9,10, and new 11 and 13 guy the doc seems like an issue they only had. I have multiple issue with these stupid systems and never seem to get the same problem twice. Honestly guys the DPF is ruining these AWSOME POWERFUL engines. As soon as the warrenty runs out get this system off. I love these engine sooo much and when they get a little older and out of warrenty ill be adding this to my 95 and 02. The 6.4s will make more hp with a tuner,intake and exhuast than mine will with 14000 of work! The interior is much more bad*** too! Im getting really good at diaging these engines now. So if any of you 6.4 owners need help i can try my best yo help and seems like cheezit works for ford so with a ford and international guy i honestly dont think isnt a thing we couldnt figure out.lol

 

ive seen a few that were cracked. they all had one thing in common too. Bucket trucks and they were all crazy engine hours... near 3x what operating hours would be.

By the way the maf sensor issue is were the dpf's EDPS(exhaust differential pressure sensor) get is refrance value. so when the maf is off so is the load calc of the dpf.

you can go through the pinpoint test all day long and never find that bit of info. for some reason ford left that out of the test.

 

My EGT labels are

EBIS 1
EBIS 2
EBIS 3
EBIS 4

I think the first 3 are in the exhaust pipe, the one that moves up and down the most is the 1st, #4 is the DPF can. I have no idea what EBIS is. Also, when in a regen cycle the number 128.00 is on the Edge display. Don't know what that could be either.

 

I dont know what 128 would be, does it say TFT, that would be Transmission Fluid Temp, those are around 125-160 usually, maybe thats it. Dosent it say something by it?

I had a EDGE juice chip for my 6.4
It clogged my DPF fast 7kmiles and shot my High Pressure Fuel Pump. I would start the truck and it would just peg out the RPMs I had to hit the key. The old Piezzio system the key would not shut it off, you'd have to disconnect the battery if you could get to it befor the engine blew or had serious damage. My Edge chip gave me MPG 14 city 17.5 hwy 12 towing

I now have removed my DPF/DOC and got the Spartan tunes and DashDaq controller. Its nice, gott be careful with that extra 275 HP. On the 275 Hp Tune I get 18city 19tow 22-28hwy unloaded. Its amazing what ripping that DPF off does, that damn thing is just choking the life out of these motors.

EDGE CHIPS are crap, unless your using the insight. Even then I'd sell it and get the DashDaq from Drew Technologies. Its the touchscreen monitor that Spartan uses, it would replace your Edge insight. You can literaly check hundreds of parameters and design your own gauges. Its really easy to use and about the nicest looking unit. Take my advice get the 250 tune if you think the 275 is too radical for you. The 250 still gets about the same Milage. Then just drive it nice, put it on cruise control and start saving money. You'll enjoy getting into the pedal every now and then.

If you into racing they got everything you'll want for your 6.4

 

Sounds like you fuel volume control valve went bad on you pump which is no serivceable. I though of another issue i have seen 4 times.

If you ever get a soild CEL on and your engine will only rev to 1000rpm the connector on the FVCV has a loose connection. These are not fun to get on on a bus and alot worse on a 6.4 i would believe. I had a string of them all in the same month that this happened. The connector was not snapping in correctly. I RR the pass through and it fixed it.

Also have had 2 issue with V-REF and we never did find the issue till about 2 weeks ago. I found a set of wrie thats slightly close to the exhaust even though wrapped in heat tape would get hot during a regen and cause it to stop. Talk about an issue hard to find

 

PHElectric, total agreement on the crap Edge chips. I just got the Insight before I knew anything about the DashDaq. Kinda sucks but I'll be getting the Spartan DPF/CAT delete and tunes in a couple years. When I hit 200K I'm gonna get the thing right and see how it does. Problem is, I tow trailers for 90% of my driving so I have to stick with pretty low tunes. The 6.4 stock already yanks the snot out of my trailers, makes everything creek and pop when I accel. Especially the fifth wheel hitch. Sometimes I'm afraid I'm goin to break the kingpin when the trailer weighs 15K and the turbo's kick in. The front end of the truck torques pretty good (driver side kicks up) and the torque converter kicks a little, hitch makes a lot of noise and then we're off. Pretty fun.

 

I'll chime in on the Dashdaq and the Spartan tunes. I have the dpf/cat delete and I can get into the 20mpg range in the summer unloaded. Now that it is cooler, MPG is dropping down as expected. The dashdaq is awesome, and shows you pretty much everything your ecu can shoot out at you. You can monitor anything you want. As far as the 275 tune... Nuts thats all I can say. It is too much for me. The shifts are rock hard and not the most pleasant. I personally run the 210, and that has plenty of juice and doesnt spill my coffee all over me.

 

maybe someday ill get a 6.4 but its a hard thing to do spending 50 grand on a truck then automatically void the warrenty. Someday ill have a 6.4 king ranch but for now im sticking to the next best thing, my trusty 7.3s.

Also wanted to note that international does not use a mass air flow sensor or MAF on the MAXX 7. The 7 is a good bit different from the egr system to using a single electroic controlled VGT not oil controlled as on the 6L/vt365. The engines are 70% the same. Fords use a similar design to the vt275/maxx5 with the compounds and use boost controlle valves and such. Also the maxx7 is nosie too. Ford has put alot of money into nosie reduction software with the 5 shots per stroke and all that other stuff. The maxx 7 sounds kinda like the first 1994 7.3PSD