Hi Guys,

I have a quick question about front end rebuilding.

I'm planning on keeping my stock front end (axel, brakes, etc). It's getting pretty sloppy and I know the passenger side tie rod end is loose.

I also know that the kingpin bushings on the drivers side are fairly loose (about 1/2 inch of tire movement when rocking it top to bottom) and the kingpin bushings on the passenger side are slightly loose (about 3/16 inch movement). Drag link is tight as a drum.

The truck is getting a little unruly in the steering department up around 50MPH (but suprisingly, smoothes out above 60). It seems to over turn when I turn the wheel - iow control is hard to keep - feels loose - duh!

So I'm going out to replace the tie rod ends today.

Question is: if I wait about a week to fix the sloppy kingpins, will it ruin the new tie rod ends?

Lets say I put 200 miles or less on the truck this week.

Thanks guys!

 

shouldn't hurt them, they would need some heavy pounding before they were worn..

Sam

 

The loose king pins will have no effect on the tie rod ends.
Also check the spring end bushings. Any looseness in them will let the axle move forward and back slightly at either end and cause it to dart or wander. This is often the problem with a straight axle that does not drive well and often overlooked.

 

Above advice is all good. be sure to also check the ***** the drag link fits onto (somehow that sounds nasty to say to you... ) for wear. Replace the ball(s) if they show visible wear as well as the drag link cups.

 

Animals----just a bunch of animals! Tee hee

Anyway, I replaced the two tie rod ends today. It's the first work I've done on the poor truck in months. It was easier than I though it would be.

One seemed to be ok but the other one was really bad. The grease fitting was gone off it and it had eaten itself up. Had to heat and pound to get it off the spindle arm. So I would venture to say it didn't get replaced the last go around either. (Doesn't much matter, the moron PO I had wouldn't have been able to grease it anyway since he used his grease gun hose as the back brake flex line)

Anyway, it seemed alot better. But I rechecked the kingpin wobble and it's really bad - on both sides now. I would venture to say that the lower bushing on the drivers side is all but gone. I'm getting about 1/16 to 3/32 of an inch of movement at the bottom spindle joint and about 5/8 inch at the bottom of the tire. That's gotta be a big factor too.

So, the reason I asked was because I am going to drop off the whole axel and take it to San Diego Spring to have both the kingpin bushings reamed and the springs resprung. They will replace the spring eye bushings and pins, clips and bolts, etc at the same time.

I lent my Ranger to a friend who is moving (the alternative was to help them move). So I'm driving the big truck daily (three days at 50 miles RT/day) to work. Thursday I can pull the axel off and take it down to get it done (and friday is payday too - oye).

I appreciate the advice.

After I get all that done, I'll take it in to get it aligned (castor and toe in anyway) and I plan to shim it to about 5 degrees in castor and 5/64 in toe in for freeway speeds. I know that exceeds both stock limits but I am under the impression that it will help stabilize the steering at higher speeds. Comments?

AX, question for you. My drag link is really solid - no movement at all - very tight. Can what you described still be occuring and be a problem?

Thanks again guys.

 

Yes, since the cup in the drag link are spring loaded the wear may not be noticable upon casual examination. The only way to know for sure is to take the drag link off and check the ***** for wear. Wear is likely if the ends were not greased regularly and/or the rubber dust sleeves were damaged or missing. They are pretty easy to get off, and you're giong to need to remove the drag link to drop the axle anyway and while the kingpins are being rebushed would be the best time to have the machine shop install new ***** if needed. Remove the dust jackets. Take the big cotter pin out of the end of the drag link. Use a large screwdriver to unscrew the plug. push the drag link towards the larger end of the keyhole slot being careful to do it slowly and carefully to note the order and orientation of the springs and cups inside. Lift the drag link off the steering ball by pulling the ball thru the keyhole. Do the same with the other end and remove drag link (the parts may not be in the same order/orientation at both ends so be careful to note as you take apart) There will be a second cup and possibly a spring inside each end so look for them and remove after the drag link is off. Clean off all old grease and examine ***** and cups (here we go again...) for flat spotting or wear. Replace as needed. be sure to use new dust jackets and check that grease fittings are clear before reinstalling. When reinstalling screw in end plugs until tight, back off 1/2 turn + amount needed to line up cotter pin holes with slot. install new cotterpins and grease.

 

besides all that they've mentioned and it's all stuff i bought for what was gonna be for mine , have you adjusted the steering box ??? there's a " set " screw with a jam nut around it on your box . loosen the nut and tighten the screw up till you feel your wheel start to bind when you try to turn it , then back off a little at a time till it doesn't . it helped mine out tremendously to do just that . it's easier if there's two of ya obviously .... and the ***** ax is talking about really don't show the wear , but i found the specs for them somewhere , can't recall , and took a digital micrometer to mine and the spare axle / suspension i have sitting here , measuring at several points each and yowza were they ever worn down !! i either got mine through carpenter or mid fifty cant remember .. now i've let the darkside consume me and i blame you and ax for not talking me outta it ..... the bird donor will be in the garage very soon for the suspension swap pieces ,and the journey toward the dark realm will begin ................ i'm supposed to sell all the stuff for the other build i was on but ....................... i'm looking for another cab and bed as we speak .............................BIG EVIL LAUGH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Jules,
Don't forget to look at the upper bushing and pin between the front spring hanger and the frame. This one often gets overlooked when rebuilding/replacing all the others and its often worn out.
Don't be bashful on the toe in, especially if experiencing any of the Drunken Monkey or Death Wobble characteristics.

Good luck, the truck ought to drive like a dream after all of this
Bobby

 

Well it was an interesting day so I thought I'd pass on a little follow up. It was also a day laced with about 1000 Holy $#!T's (springs - keep reading)!!!!

Yesterdasy while waiting for the Kingpin Bushings to be honed (by HDS Auto Parts and Machine in Escondido - who did an outstanding job btw) I removed the drag link, and removed the front axel. Some of you may remember my thread about a year ago about my bent front axel - well, I got another one to install during this process.

I inspected the ***** on the spindle arm and on the stearing gear arm as AX recommended. I noted that the back drag link connection at the stearing gear arm was infact, loose, and the mud cover torn to bits - no mud cover on the front at all. The spindle ball was clean as a whistle and had no wear. But the stearing gear arm ball had a small burr or ridge on it - on the bottom on center. I spoke to the guys up at North County Spring and they said if it wasn't too bad; if the ball wasn't misshaped, flattened out; or if the burr wasn't on the surface that contacts the "ball seat", I could burnish off the ridge, and install new seats. It appeared to be a slight "dig" from the old ball seat. I carefully filed it off and sanded it smooth/round, held the new seat up against it to check for fit and it appeared to make solid contact and be fine. So I continued and completely rebuilt the drag link internals on both ends plus new mud covers, grease fittings, and all - very easy to do.

When I dropped the axel off I checked for movement in the spring eyes and THAT's where the Metephores began. With the axel off I was able to move the drivers side spring about 3/4 of an inch from side to side, and the passenger side about an inch. The frame bolts are shot/loose, and the eye bolts/bushings are shot/loose front and back. I can actually see the movement of the spring holders on the frame in the front, and a good amount of movement in the spring eyes. So, my decision and plan to respring and replace the frame bolts was a good one I think. I'll have to drive it up to North County Spring early next week to have that done.

I was a little taken aback that those were so bad. And now having seen the slop in the tie rod ends, the slop in the slop in the king pins, and the just plain loose springs, I completely understand why my driving quality was getting scary above 40 mph and with the freeway grooves (in California they cut "groves" about 3/4 inch apart, 1/8 inch wide and 1/4 inch deep to prevent hydroplaning. They are most often not straight but "wavy" and tend to grab at your tires - especially on motorcycles).

Anyway.....

The new king pins were easy to install! I had to use two shims on the drivers side and only one on the passenger side. With the old axel, there were four per side. The kingpins were a breeze to install so I guess my initial intimidation about doing this work myself was a little foolish. The only problem I had with the king pins was I had to tap (ok maybe pound) them through the axel (they slipped nicely through the spindles/new bushings) with a ball peen hammer. I attribute this to a little rusting inside the hole in the axel. I did dress them up first with some 220 wet dry but must not have gotten them completely clean. I replaced the grease fittings (one was missing on the pass. side) as well.

Tie rod went back on both spindles and the spindle side of the drag link went on fine too. Everything is nice and tight now. It operates smoothly without any binding but there is NO slop anywhere.

The job for today is to reinstall the backing plates (with brakes still attached), repack all the wheel bearings and reinstall the hubs and wheels. Then I'll go around and re grease everything again and test drive.

The plan to finish the project is to take it next monday up to North County Spring to have the new front springs made and installed, and have the new front end tuned and aligned as an assembly.

I'm very exceted about what the results will bring, and being able to drive at the faster freeway speeds safely. I'll update this after my drive tonight.

In the mean time heres a few pictures of the work...note the cracks down the center of the brake shoes - guess what's next? I'm a little PO'd about those cracks as I only have about 7K miles on the brakes - it's time to see what Escondido offers in the way of brake guys.







PS I'm definately going to get the pissy face and "NYing nyock ling how yuck" from the little Vietnamese girl who fixes my nails!

 

That's all great to hear Julie! Now don't neglect to have the rear spring bushings and hangers inspected and replaced if necessary. A loose rear axle can also cause handling "surprises" on those grooved roadways especially.
That's what's good about the beam axle and leaf spring FS, it's the automotive version of "less is more" design. Simple, strong, easily repaired/rebuilt.
Do follow your spring guy's advice and install the slider buttons or the strips between the leafs, the difference in ride is very appreciable and well worth it.
The cracking on the brake shoes is "heat checking" (notice the high gloss glazing as well). You don't rest your foot on the brake pedal by chance do you? Your front brakes may have too much residual pressure that is holding the shoes against the brake drums, or you may need to use a less heat sensitive brake shoe material. When applying the brakes do not apply them very slowly for extended times (I know in heavy freeway traffic there is a tendency to drive defensively by continuously "tapping" the brakes in anticipation of needing to stop quickly.) This can cause tremendous heat buldup, and the only cooling of the shoe occurs by transfer when they firmly contact the drums. Using the brakes by applying them firmly not dragging them will help keep them cool.

 

Great to know, thanks!

Yep, I'm going to have the back springs checked when I have the rear end inspected and any service done to it. It may need to be leveled as well. With my PO I feel the need to look at everything!!!!

All it takes is $$$$$!

I don't usually keep my foot on the brake pedal (its the the other one that I am ususally bearing down on too much - tee hee).

When I brake in the big truck I usually pump the pedal once or twice, then apply the brakes firmly. They do the job but as well you know, there really isn't enough of the stock brakes to "halfway" them.

I also noticed that they were eversoslightly dragging a tad when I rotated them when taking the wheels off. I'll be sure to readjust them when I put them back on today.

 

The correct adjustment procedure is to adjust until the wheel stops turning by hand, then back off the adjustment until only a slight drag is felt. push the brake pedal a couple times to reseat the shoes then recheck and readjust if necessary.
I hate to say this but those shoes are destroyed and are only going to get worse fast. Replace them ASAP and have the drums turned or at least break the glaze with a good sanding with 180 wet or dry used dry before using them with new shoes. Try to find some semi metallic shoes. May need to go to a rebuilder for custom lined shoes if all that's available OTS is organic linings. Shouldn't be much more expensive than relined shoes at the parts store.

 

Every little piece with just a little bit slop can sure add up. The trucks going to drive nice after all of this

Good job
Bobby

 

Thanks guys.

Seems like my brakes are adjusted correctly according to AX. I can turn them and there is maybe one little spot that they will catch and drag very lightly. I'll have to look into a new brake place. The old one was one my dad used for 50 years and grew up with the owners out in Lemon Grove. I remember takin gall our cars there (like the 53 Country Squire!) But they have all long since passed on and since his sons took over they have kind of gone to pot.

I don' t mind replacing old parts or even for that matter expect the PO Stupid stuff that needs replacing - I expect that. But when I spend money on new parts and install them correctly and they fail in the first 15% of their normal life, that kind of irritates me. So, I'll ask around and try a new vender for the shoes. It's challenging because if you get shoes that are too hard they wear out those $100 drums in short order. Maybe there's a happy medium somehwere - so back to research on those.

I got it all put back together tonight and took it for a test drive - very strange feeling. It was tight and smooth, where before the best way I can describe it was that it was loose but steady - like playing the trombone - ya just got used to it. But it definately felt more solid and was very responsive. Funny thing is after taking all the slop out (and I think this has to do with rebuilding the drag link and tightening it up where it is supposed to be) my steering wheel is 90 degrees off set to the left (or better said rotated counterclockwise 90*) now. I'll have to move it back later.

I'll take it up monday for springs, then bring it home and do the brakes - again!

Funny but when I started this thread I thought I was just doing the kingpins! Isn't that the way it always seems to go?...completely new front end. Well it needed it.

Thanks for all the great pointers and advice guys, I really appreciate it!

 

Semi metallic linings are pretty easy on drums The same material that is used on most OEM disk brake pads. brake disks wear much quicker than drums due to smaller contact area, and new drums can usually be turned a couple 3 times. Even if they needed turning every 60K miles which would be pretty extreme they'd last 180K miles. Think your truck will last that long without needing a lot more than a new set of drums?(my 02 Celica that we used to AX 30-35 times a season, drive all over the eastern half of the states to events and used as our daily driver - and still do, has drum brakes on the rear. It has 145K miles on it and still has the original OEM shoes on it. The front disk pads were changed once and the disks have never been off)