Whats up,

I currently own a 1999 F-150 with a 6'' Skyjacker lift. I have currently the Flowmaster duals out rear with the Super 44 Muffler. However it just doesnt sound loud enough for me....I heard mixed things about glasspacks....Would I be able to get two glasspacks and would it make it sound quite a bit louder?? I dont want something that people have to plug their ears and nothing that sounds like those dumb 4 cylinder fart can rice burner crap. Something that sounds like it has muscle, and louder too. PLEASE HELP...(Also who makes the best glasspacks? Theres a bunchhh out there)

THANKS!!!

 

I think you will find the glasspacks to be too loud. Most true duals exit out the back by the bumper, which is the quietest place from the cap. If you change where you bring out the tailpipes, you can get the sound you want without having to get a different muffler. I am assuming you still have the stock cats. They will quiet down whatever you put on there.

 

i doubt the '99 f-150 is a true dual setup, unless you've gone thru & replaced the cat's & y-pipe...

if it funnels down into a single, run a single glasspack. it won't be obnoxious, but it will 'drone'.

i'd advise hacking it into a true dual setup with twin glasspacks (get 'em hot, then spray cold water into 'em...condenses the 'glass for more pop) & resonator tips.

i don't know about the mod motors, but it made my '89 302 f/150 sound great.
but, i wasn't rocking cats, either...maybe the cats will tone it down to a more acceptible level if you're older than me.

(i had a t-shirt that said 'If it's too loud, you're too old')

 

First of all does your truck have true duals or just dual tailpipes?If you wanna keep it all legal like I would just cut off the muffler and not even waste my money on a glasspack because in my opinion that will still be to quiet.Just straight pipe it.Now on the other hand your truck in stock form should have 2 cats and if I remember right after the cats the exhaust y's and you should be able to cut it off yourself and have duals or have someone do it for you.From my experience it's hard to make these trucks loud without gutting the cats or just cutting them off,of course I don't have that problem in Michigan.

 

Please be advised that the term "glass packs" would include:

Allied
Edelbrock
Borla
Magnaflow
Hooker

All of which use packing material which although is not fiberglass (as no one has used in 20 years), they each use a sound material absorbing design. Even conventional "glass packs" are proven in flow testing to out perform many of the so-called "Free Flowing Real Mufflers". For reference, WyoTech, Hot Rod Magazine have numerous published articals on this. On the net, please read:

broaderperformance.com/muffler_flow_tests.htm (Independently tested cfm flows of the more popular mufflers, glasspacks and resonators.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...../index1.html (this is an indepth artical that tests not only the mis-conception of flow demand but also how placement of a muffler (a glass pack in this dyno test) can actually "fool " the system into thinking that it is essentially a straight pipe.

I have listed here a muffler shootout test done by CAR CRAFT:

The Mufflers
MAKE MODEL Part No. COST
SUMMIT Turbo 630125 $14.75
THRUSH Magnum Glasspack 24214 $16.50
THRUSH Boss Turbo 17718 $23.95
HOOKER Competition 21006 $25.95
DYNOMAX Super Turbo 17733 $28.50
DYNOMAX Race Magnum 24215 $31.95
HOOKER Super Competition 21106 $35.95
SUMMIT Fully Welded 630325 $38.69
FLOWTECH Afterburner 50322 $39.95

MUFFLER FLOW TEST

MUFFLER Flow at 28-in H20
DynoMax Race Magnum 528.64 cfm
Thrush Magnum Glasspack 507.40 cfm
Summit Fully Welded 343.38 cfm
Flowtech Afterburner 342.20 cfm
DynoMax Super Turbo 333.94 cfm
Hooker Competition 232.46 cfm
Hooker Super Competition 320.96 cfm
Summit Turbo 331.16 cfm
Thrush Boss Turbo 297.36 cfm

MUFFLER Idle dB WOT dB
DynoMax Super Turbo 89 123
DynoMax Race Magnum 94 133
Flowtech Afterburner 92 124
Hooker Competion 92 122
Hooker Super Competion 90 125
Summit Turbo 89 124
Summit Fully Welded 92 125
Thrush Boss Turbo 90 123
Thrush Magnum Glasspack 92 128

DYNO TEST
All mufflers were dyno-tested on a 355-cube SBC with 10.0:1 compression, Air Flow Research 190 aluminum heads, a CompCams 292 hyd. a Victor Jr. intake, a Holley 750-cfm double-pumper, and 1 5/8 Headman headers.


MUFFLER HP TORQUE 2,500-6,000rpmAverage
Hooker Competition 397.4 381.1 286.8hp/351.9 lb-ft
Thrush Boss Turbo 407.1 384.9 292.1 hp/357.5 lb-ft
DynoMax Race Magnum 409.5 394.3 298.8 hp/366.9 lb-ft
Flowtech Afterburner 409.7 391.2 294.8 hp/361.7 lb-ft
Thrush Glasspack 409.5 389.8 297.7 hp/365.3 lb-ft
Summit Turbo 411.5 386.3 291.5 hp/357.4 lb-ft
DynoMax Super Turbo 412.7 387.2 292.6 hp/358.6 lb-ft
Hooker Super Comp 413.8 387.2 292.8 hp/359.0 lb-ft
Summit Fully Welded 415.4 390.7 295.6 hp/362.4 lb-ft

While there are mufflers that will out flow a glass pack design, it also depends on the design. Does the glasspack use "louvers or perforations" - Louvers reduce the flow by as much as 50% but Allied resonators (that sell for $20-$40) each and available at any muffler shop) installed backwards in independent test flowed 90%+ of a "race spec muffler". Others using other brands consistantly showed similar results.

In other words, it all depends on the quality of the product as to how it flows, sounds, and lasts.

 

Again with the terms glass packs. You know I was once criticized for referring to the older 4.0L as an overhead valve design when the newer ones are overhead valves too. The old 4.0L is called the OHV, because the newer ones are referred to as Overhead Cam (OHC/SOHC) and Dual Overhead Cam (DOHC) designs. All use overhead valves.

Likewise, you referring to all straight through designs is misleading. When someone says 'glasspack" there is a certain image that is associated with it. My classical definition, a glasspack is a small bodied tube with a louvered tube passing through it. It uses a fiberglass or similar material (and yes fiberglass is still used), to help dampen some of the noise, but glasspacks are designed to be loud. While still technically glasspacks, units with straight through designs without louvers are referred to as resonators, superceeding the glasspack name. Units with larger oval bodies are true mufflers, which superceeds the glasspack name as well. So from a technical standpoint, yes,they are glasspacks, but from an image standpoint, they are not.

You have posted the broaderperformance link before, and when you actually read their finding they clash with your comments and opinions. It trust their findings, they closely mirror what I see in real life, and they are not sponsored by the products they tested.
The popularhotrodding link is dead (I wonder why)
Carcraft is sponsored by various performance manufacturers, and the test results reflect the bias of their sponsorship. The test are far from scientific. In science, you test multiple variables, but only one in each group. In most automotive tests, they test at least half a dozen variables, then attribute the results to individual components, rather that testing each component individually and running them against a control.

I put little faith in tests by car magazines that are sponsored by performance products, but I do put faith in tests performed by serious enthusiasts, such as the broaderperformance boys.

 

i use purple hornies & cherry bomb glass packs.

 

Thanks Guys for the help, Yes I do have the stock cats....I'm thinking of getting MaganaFlow Cats...Would they be good? And also My truck has true duals with two seperate CATS.

 

No, I do not recommend the Magnaflow cats. They might be a little louder than stock, but they will not flow any better, and I won't sell them, or anything that contains them. I've had way to many comebacks with the Magnaflow product. They are underpowered and overpriced. I'm sure some people will object and claim they have had them on their vehicles for years without problems. That all well and good congratulations that you have a good setup. But you can do much better on both an absolute scale and on a value scale. Many people think of Magnaflow as a high flow cat. But under current industry standards, they are ordinary cats, and do not necessarily meet the current definition of high flow. The term high flow cats was coined in the early days, when many trucks still had pellet type catalysts, so any honey comb type catalyst was going to flow better. Today, all vehicles come with some form of honeycomb, and most factory designs are very hard to improve on. Most OE setups use a 400 cpi structure because it offers the best compromise between efficiency and airflow.

True high flow cats have lower cell densities and higher precious metal content. Because the metal content has increased, the cost also increases dramatically. If it doesn't use a lower cell density than 400 cpi, it is not a high flow cat under current definitions.

Magnaflow does make some spun metal cats that are true high flow. They are a little undersized for trucks however, and they are very expensive. My past experiences with them has been good in terms of airflow and performance gains, but they have been disappointing in terms of efficiency. Their loading is weak and I have had a lot of CEL problems as a result.

I have sold a few of Easterns Tru-Performance line and have been very impressed. They use either a 200 cpi spun metallic substrate in a round bullet cat, or a 300 cpi ceramic in large truck sized bodies. The ceramic offers a much better bang for the buck. I would recommend the ceramic units. They would give you a substantial increase in sound and performance. I have used them mostly on turbo applications, in some cars that have a reputation for setting a CEL. The Eastern units worked wonderfully. I have used them is Z06 Corvettes, Saabs, Subarus, Opals, and Isuzus without any comebacks. All late model OBD-II compliant vehicles. (The Opal was a 2003 Frontera).

If you are going to spend any money replacing cats, with the object to increase power and sound level over stock, you have to use a higher flow cat than stock. Normal ceramic cats will not do this for you. To get a good metallic catalyst do not waste you time looking at anything under $150. Units under that price will not have sufficient precious metal loadings to keep the cel off.

 

Thanks Bear. I was checking out that website and it looked like they make pretty nice stuff. Would I be better to get the whole direct fit CAT system or just get two universal CATS? Also I ordered a set of SUMMIT CERAMIC headers...That should help right?

 

Super-44's are supposed to be the loudest!

 

my father has read all of your/my postings and has this comment:

Ya know, when you read all of your mis-statements, your rudeness, given your 35 years on this earth I find amusing. I still have my Vinyards Glasspacks (which you have probably never seen- nor are even aware that although they are named this, they do not have even an ounce of fiberglass material inside) on my 1932 3-window Coupe with the 1949 Merc flathead that I originally built and raced in 1950, turned 149 mph at El Mirage and then , placed in a belly tank stream-liner, driven by William (Billy) Stecker, turning over 211 mph (featured in Hot Rod Magazine). As an aeronautical mechanical engineer, who as a senior R&D engineer and/or program manager, involved in the design of our early space and missile defense systems, I am very familiar with thermodynamics in several aspects, exhaust systems being one. Your stated level of expertise is clear, but perhaps either incomplete or understated in your explanations.

What is clear, is your disrespect not only only my son (who is 50 something years old) and others who have communicated with you by e-mail, phone and other means. Let us hope that the perception does not represent your business practices which are hopefully in better taste.

 

So what does this prove. I sell mufflers that contain heavy grade fiberglass. Few products contain real fiberglass because asbestos and rockwool are cheaper. Fiberglass is still better because it can be manufactured to any thickness. When a heavy grade high temp fiberglass is used, it is more resilient than the rock fibers.

If it seems that I am picking on your son, perhaps it would help if he didn't say one thing, then provide dead links, and post information that goes against what he just said.

I despise constantly being put on the defensive and being directly attacked on what is supposed to be a helpful automotive forum.

Now on to some actually beneficial stuff.
Yes, headers will help. Your truck should have 4 cats, two on each side. Under EPA laws, you cannot eliminate any of them from the vehicle. I would leave your existing cats on there. They already flow very well. You can modify them however, one region that is a weakness on many of them is the y-pipe. You can cut out the y section and replace it with a better smoother flowing one for some gains. If you ordered long tube headers, you might have to replace the cats. If you are in a region where nobody cares, you can replace them with a pair of larger truck body catalysts, which would offer some performance and sound benefits over a standard converter without having to go into the expense of true high flow catalysts.

I would not get an assembly unless it specifically says it has 300 cpi or lower high flow catalysts, and not at all if you are using long tube headers. To match long tube headers you will have to have a shop modify or replace your existing cat setup to match the headers. If you get shorty headers, you will not need to modify anything.