I have a few questions on the differences of the 239 fuel pump and intake vs the 272 fuel pump and intake.

I measured the intakes that I have 1 from a 239 and one from a 272. The 272 measured bigger which is I guess what I have been reading from different threads on the FTE. I guess I want to know that the intake from the 272 will for sure not work on the 239 V8. I am assuming that the exhaust ports are also smaller than usual? But intake ports had atleast 1/8th in. difference in the length.


Now for the fuel pump:
The 239 originally came with a different timing chain mount than the one that is currently bolted on the block. I needed to put the timing chain cover from the 272 for mounting purposes to the frame. I noticed that the fuel pumps are slightly different between the 239 and 272. But I noticed that the fuel pump mounting spot is slightly higher on the timing chain cover from the 272 than that of the 1 on the 239 timing chain cover. Is this what makes the difference in the fuel pumps? Or is the lob on the cam smaller or bigger between the 239 and 272?

 

Howdy,

I'm pretty sure that you cannot swap the manifolds from a 239 to a 272/292 or vice versa.


I used to have pictures of both fuel pumps in my gallery but deleted them. I seem to remember that the cam eccentric actuated the pump from above the arm on one and below the arm on the other. They weren't interchangeable either.


Regards,


Rick

 

There isn't really a 272 intake. Which intake do you have and how do the intakes compare - not the gaskets? While you can get a large port intake to seal on small port heads, it isn't going to last long.

There is a guy on Y-blocksforever running a slightly modified 239 in his '54 F100. He runs mid 18s in the 1/4. I know that's nothing by today's standards but it's respectable when you consider what he is using. And he gets faster every year! You might want to head over there and ask a few questions.

 

I had a 239 in my F-600 that I sold......I think it had 272/292 heads on it though. Which means you *could* use the "other" manifolds then...etc....It did have the 239 timing cover on it .....which is quite different. The 239 water pump WILL not interchange with the 272/292.

You might ask the same questions over on Y-blocks forever . All these Y-blocks will interchange somethings but not others.....(excluding "Lincoln" Y-blocks of course....)

 

I guess as for the intake manifold it probably will not work swapping them because the ports are almost an 1/8th inch bigger on the intake from the 272. I am guessing that yes like what charliemccraney said if I do get a gasket to seal it probably will not last long. The only reason I want to try and put the intake from the 272 on is the carburator that mounts to it has already been rebuilt.

Unless there is a conversion to go from a small 2bbl carburator to a large 2bbl Holley carb?

As for the timing chain cover, itself and everything that bolts to it is what came off the 272. I looked at the fuel pumps from both the 272 and 239 and they are slightly different. The one from the 272 has a slight downward bend in the arm at the very end. And as for the pump off the 239 it is straight the whole length of the arm.

As for the exhaust manifolds from a quick glance the manifolds from a 272 vs those from a 239 they look to be the same. But I noticed that the overall size of the manifolds from the 239 are a little smaller than the one from the 272. I didn't measure anything though.

 

Will something like this work:
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Late-C...apter,808.html
or
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Holley...dapter,68.html

If you switch to a later carb, such as a Holley 2300, you will also have to change the distributor. The newer carb will not provide the correct vacuum signal. On a 239, this presents more problems. The distributor gear is different. I think the fix for that is as easy as swapping the old gear to the new distributor. The other problem, if I'm remembering right, is that the oil pump drive is different. You will have to switch to a newer hex drive and I don't know if that means changing the oil pump as well.

Again, I will suggest that you head to Y-blocksforever and talk with people who have done what you want to do.

 

The issue here isn't so much the engine involved, it is the heads involved.

First of all, on the exhaust port issue, there isn't any difference in exhaust ports that I've noticed -- not to say that there isn't, but I haven't seen it. However, the 239 exhaust manifolds are smaller. If you can, go with the later exhaust manifolds.

Timing covers: There are 4 kinds. There are two small water pump covers, one for cars, and the other for trucks. There are two large water pump covers, one for cars, and the other for trucks. The difference here is, of course, the truck front engine mount and the bosses cast into the cover accept the truck pump. For this cover, there are 2 small water pumps: the car pump, where the heater hose barb screws in at about 30* above horizontal on the passenger side and the fan is mounted to the pump shaft, and the truck pump where there is a bracket cast to the top of the pump that accepts a separate truck fan. (I use this one. I have modified a 6 bladed stainless steel "flex fan" and it works fine in cooling my 272.) Also, on the truck pump, the heater barb is about 6 inches long and comes off of the pump horizontally on the passenger side.

The truck cover (I have not studied the car cover) uses a fuel pump with a straight arm. The pump mounts upside down, compared to regular fuel pumps and if you have one with a glass bowl (some have them and some don't), the bowl is on the up side of the pump when it is mounted. The straight arm of these fuel pumps I have and have seen for this cover are made of several sheets of steel riveted together, so the arm is essentially solid.


The other two covers -- also in truck (front motor mount) and car (no motor mount) versions -- use a large water pump. This water pump is much more easily obtained and I would go for this cover for that reason. Water pumps are available with a fan bracket (truck) or not (car), as I said about the small cover.

The fuel pump on these large water pump covers mounts hanging down, in the conventional manner. The pump arm is bent and the ones I have seen have arms made of a single piece of stamped steel in a "U" cross section. I understand that an FE pump will interchange with the Y Block pumps, but I do not know this of my own knowledge. If this is so, it would also be an advantage of using the large pump cover -- both water and fuel pumps are more easily come by.

Now for the intakes. I am saying this from what I know and have seen about 239 and large port heads, and I am speculating on the 55-56 heads, so you may take what I say for whatever value you wish to attribute to it.

There are 3 port sizes: 239, 55-56, and large port, used on everything from 1957 and up, no matter what the valve size. I suspect that Ford used the same castings for the 55-56 heads as they did for the 239 heads. the port sizes, based on the intake gaskets and based on my junkyard observations, are pretty close, with the 55-56 ports beign a little bit larger. My opinion is that such a swap would work with no problem.

The other port size, 57 and up, is much larger than the other two. In comparing it with the 239 head, the large port head was certainly a different casting all together -- the mating surfaces (as well as the ports) are much larger.

Now, with that said, I will tell you that you could possibly use the large port manifold on 239 heads. I can tell you this because I did it and it worked fine for about 30,000 miles, until the poor old 239 gave up the ghost. However, I would not recommend that you do it. Here's why:

I put a 9425 B big port 4v manifold on my 239, along with the 312 Holley 390 cfm carb. All of those stupid old wives' tales cfm calculators aside, the setup worked GREAT and was a better deal all around, compared to the stock 239 carb. Better mileage, better performance, easier starts -- it was a superior setup.

However, when I tore the thing down to put the manifold on the large port 272 that replaced the 239, I could see that in some places, the manifold ports were within 1/16" of an inch of "outside air!" This is not enough sealing surface in the first place, and in the second, any slight core shift could have made the whole business work. As a matter of fact, when you stick a manifold on, you have a small amount of fore-and-aft latitude in where it will bolt down, and I probably found the one serendipitous spot for this to work for me. I wouldn't try it again, even tho it worked, even if I was to use the same parts again.

So my advice would be not to try using a big port manifold on your 239, but that a 55-56 manifold would be fine.

Use what I have said for whatever it is worth to you.

 

This is true. I had an FE pump on my 292 for 5 years. It worked great. I still have the pump somewhere around.

 

Whoops! I said:


What I mean is that the truck front engine cover has bosses to accept the truck front motor mount. The car uses side mounts and doesn't need these.


It would have been handier to edit my post, but they have taken that ability away after 5 seconds or some other "reasonable" amount of time, just like the ability to link to outside pictures or outside sites.

What a dismal set of developments for trying to exchange information!

 

Yea, those links look to be like what I would need to convert. I take it I would need both correct. Big base first then the Holley base bolted on that. I would have to compare dimensions.



Well Wild.Bunch what would you say about putting the original intake on the motor but then getting a carburator adaptor?

I have no problem putting the old intake back on if it may cause serious problems in the near future. If I absolutly have to put the original carb. back on the original intake I will. It's just that I have this big 2BBL Holley carb. that I had completly rebuilt and put only a matter of a few hundred miles on it since I had it rebuilt. But if I have to use the original carb. that came on my 239 intake I will after I get it rebuilt.

As for the fuel pump I will check the fit of my new pump to the current state of my motor soon. I will keep you posted.

Thanks much for the input guys!!!!

 

You don't say what a "large 2bbl Holley carb" is exactly, but if I were to guess, I would guess that you are talking about the 500 cfm List 4412 2v Holley.

Yes, you could bolt it on the old manifold with the adapters Charlie linked.

No, the "big Holley" would not work correctly if you still have the Load O Matic distributor, and there's no way to make it work correctly.

Yes, you could get it to run. But if you hook up the vacuum line of a Load O Matic distributor to any vacuum source, you will have problems, and they may not be pretty. You risk ruining the engine from too much advance, and it won't run right. Then again, it won't run right without the Load O Matic hooked up, either.

The 500 cfm Holley 2v is actually the front half of a 780 cfm 3310 ev Holley. With the adapters Charlie listed, being as they create an open plenum, I would expect that your performance would be soggy, even if you do convert to a 1957 - up distributor or already have one in the motor. the List 4412 has a 50cc accelerator pump, so you will be able to cover a multitude of sins with it, but it cannot perform miracles and you may experience some flat spots at times. Still, I would expect that you would get more performance and mileage with the swap of the carb and distributor than you could achieve with the stock carb and Load O Matic distributor.

The big Holley has large bores, but still must feed thru the small holes in the original manifold mounting plate, and that will be a restriction. So, you will never be able to use "all" of the carb with this setup. If it works for you, good enough, but the larger carb probably won't add a whole lot of performance -- that is my guess.

If you were going to stay with the small manifold and 239, but swap the distributor with a later one, probably your best bet might be a small Ford Autolite 2v carb with an adapter that will keep the throttle bores separate to the manifold. They run great and require hardly any maintenance.

 

Here is a picture of the 2bbl Holley I would like to put back on my truck.



As for the distributer I haven't quite gotten that far. But I am guessing I will probably just put the one that came off this 239 just to keep it simple.

What really is the advantage in going through the hasle in trying to put a later style distibuter in the 239? I heard the gear on the end is different and the oil pump has a different shaft also.

I am also going to just plan on putting the original intake manifold back on this motor. And as for the carburator I am not really looking for performance I just like the looks of the large carburator instead of the small long neck 2bbl carb.


I did finally check into the fuel pump thing and since I have a 272 timing chain cover on the front of the 239 the 272 fuel pump works and the original 239 fuel pump does not.

 

Your load-o-matic distributor will not work properly with the vacuum signal that 2bbl will provide. In other words, your 239 will perform very poorly. Wild.bunch has outlined it pretty well.
If the look of that carb is what you want, get the adapters from speedway, bolt it on and see how it does. You will have $32 in adapters which isn't too bad.
From there, if you are not satisfied with the performance, you can put the old 2bbl back on or look into fitting the later distributor.

 

100CustomCabTBC:

Without knowing exactly what carb you have by looking at the picture, I would guess that it will work well enough.

Regarding using the Load O Matic distributor with this carburetor, I will tell you that it will not work. The Load O Matic looks like a conventional distributor, but iit is not! There is no way for you to get the Load O Matic to work with any carburetor other other than the one it is designed to work with.

If you are interested in an explanation of why this is so, you can read my description of how the Load O Matic works on my page here: http://m571.com/yblock/loadomatic.htm

If you try to hook it up to another carburetor, at best it will run very poorly (you won't have any advance) and at worst you will ruin your engine.

You are correct: If the 239 is in original condition, and if it is a "Dearborn" engine, rather than a Cleveland engine, to change to a newer distributor, you will need to:

1. install a later model oil pump
2. install a matchining hexagonal drive shaft
3. replace the new distributor drive gear (14 teeth) with the drive gear from your current distributor (13 teeth).

If your 239 is a Cleveland motor, you won't need to change the distributor drive gear.

If you are intending to use the manifold and carburetor in the picture, then you already have the distributor, oil pump drive shaft, and oil pump you need to complete the swap.